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Sex with Dr. Jess


August 17, 2023

Sex Q&A, Alvinophilia & Sex vs. Social Media

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Would you rather give up sex or social media? The results from a new Canadian study may surprise you!

Jess and Brandon explore new research findings and answer a listener question about bellybutton fetishes — the what, why and how.

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Rough Transcript:

This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health, or other professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.

Sex Q&A, Alvinophilia & Sex vs. Social Media

Episode 330

[00:00:00] You’re listening to the sex with Dr. Jess podcast, sex and relationship advice. You can use tonight today.

[00:00:15] Brandon Ware: We are going to be talking about social media. And sex. And you’ve got a question about belly button fetishes.

[00:00:24] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah, really beautiful one. Okay, have you been on social media today?

[00:00:28] Brandon Ware: Of course I have. Yes.

[00:00:29] Jess O’Reilly: How soon after you wake up are you on social?

[00:00:33] Brandon Ware: Within the hour.

[00:00:34] Jess O’Reilly: Okay, that’s not that soon. Yes. As soon as I get my phone, I’m like, I’m super important. Gotta scroll instagram.

[00:00:41] Brandon Ware: I’m not interested in opening up right away because I know I also don’t feel good when I’m on social sites. Uh, if I’m on. Instagram, like, why am I there?

[00:00:51] Brandon Ware: If I’m there to, you know, to have a laugh or something like that, it’s great. But what, what am I, what’s the real issue? Like, why am I here?

[00:00:58] Jess O’Reilly: I think you’re there to, uh, look at dogs.

[00:01:00] Brandon Ware: Yes.

[00:01:00] Jess O’Reilly: Because your entire feed is dogs.

[00:01:02] Brandon Ware: If you look at my search feed, it’s all dogs. And it’s also people. Slipping and falling when they’re surfing and like snowboarding and stuff like that.

[00:01:09] Jess O’Reilly: Shall we psychoanalyze that now?

[00:01:10] Brandon Ware: Yeah, really.

[00:01:11] Jess O’Reilly: Okay, so I bring, I bring up social media because this new Canadian study was published and in the study they looked at 750 participants between the ages of 16 and 30. So a little younger than us. Just a little. And they found that 8. 8% would rather give up sex than give up social media.

[00:01:29] Brandon Ware: Really?

[00:01:30] Jess O’Reilly: It’s such, that’s an easy one for me, sex or social media.

[00:01:32] Brandon Ware: You’d give it up.

[00:01:33] Jess O’Reilly: What?

[00:01:34] Brandon Ware: The sex.

[00:01:34] Jess O’Reilly: No, I wouldn’t. You. Would you, would you give up sex or social media? No. Like, it’s not even a thought for me.

[00:01:38] Brandon Ware: Not even a question. I’d, I’d give up social media in a heartbeat. I want to give up social media right now.

[00:01:43] Jess O’Reilly: I want to give up sex. No, just kidding. I got my fix. I’m good.

[00:01:47] Brandon Ware: Yeah.

[00:01:48] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah. No, I, I mean, I’m on social media all the time. I definitely use it for work, but I use it for, I don’t even want to say pleasure. It’s just a distraction. for me, for the most part. I do a lot of learning on there. Like I [00:02:00] will say, I’m, I sit in admiration of a lot of accounts and do a lot of learning, but it’s mostly just kind of random scrolling, uh, doom scrolling, as they call it.

[00:02:08] Jess O’Reilly: So I would absolutely positively give up social media before sex, but. You know, I mean, still 8. 8% is a small minority, but a considerable minority. And I want to talk about this without judgment and kind of go through some of the other data from this study. So 30% of respondents would rather not eat at a restaurant for a year than give up social media.

[00:02:28] Brandon Ware: Okay. Okay, one in, one in three.

[00:02:31] Jess O’Reilly: I mean, I’d definitely rather eat at a restaurant, but it would be really weird to give up social media because it is the way we connect. I can’t tell you how many friends, colleagues I’ve grown close to because we’ve connected on social media, but I’m sure you find other ways.

[00:02:45] Jess O’Reilly: Like, I have a couple of very good friends who aren’t on social media. Yeah, so somehow we still stay connected, but I don’t know, you know, if I would meet as many people. So 29% say they would give up watching television.

[00:02:58] Brandon Ware: Yeah, that doesn’t surprise me. Is Netflix considered television?

[00:03:01] Jess O’Reilly: Yes, that’s considered television, I think.

[00:03:04] Jess O’Reilly: You know, 10 years ago, I would have been like, yeah, I’ll give up television. But now I carry my My little television around me. Your best, your best friend. Yeah, I’m watching the last season of Animal Kingdom right now. Well, the latest season, or the latest season I have access to. I might be far behind the others.

[00:03:18] Jess O’Reilly: Okay, more than half said that they use social media more than three hours a day. Some, 31%, said they check social media more than nine times daily. So I would say I probably check it more than nine times daily, but I definitely don’t use it three hours a day. I don’t have that kind of time.

[00:03:32] Brandon Ware: I have that reminder on my phone that tells me when I’ve hit my 15 minute max.

[00:03:37] Brandon Ware: And then I often hit ignore or remind me again in 15 minutes. But when I, when I get that reminder, I’m like, okay, I’m wasting my time.

[00:03:44] Jess O’Reilly: Okay. So it’s not like you and the alarm clocks news button that you love to hit.

[00:03:49] Brandon Ware: I do try and close any social apps once that reminder comes on. So it’s helpful. Okay.

[00:03:53] Jess O’Reilly: 11. 3%.

[00:03:55] Jess O’Reilly: This is the one that is most surprising to me. [00:04:00] 11. 3% say they prefer to have no. Face to face contact with anyone outside their household for one year than no social media.

[00:04:08] Brandon Ware: No, I don’t believe that. You don’t believe it? I don’t believe this.

[00:04:12] Jess O’Reilly: Maybe people don’t leave their house.

[00:04:14] Brandon Ware: I wonder what that would be like after a year.

[00:04:17] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah, well, some people went through it.

[00:04:19] Brandon Ware: Agreed, agreed. Um, but to have no contact with anyone outside. Maybe you’ve got a huge household.

[00:04:25] Jess O’Reilly: No, no face to face. No face to face, okay. So you can still chat with people. Yeah, 9. 4% said they’d rather be unable to have children than… Ditch social media.

[00:04:37] Brandon Ware: What was the age?

[00:04:38] Brandon Ware: 16 to 30?

[00:04:39] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah. And interestingly, there was a nationally representative sample that I think we spoke about a couple of weeks ago that found that about 21% of young people actually don’t want to have kids. So the 9. 4%, you know, doesn’t surprise me that much.

[00:04:53] Brandon Ware: Yeah. When you think about 21% not wanting to have children and then this study being half that I don’t think there’s any big surprises, like you said.

[00:05:00] Jess O’Reilly: Here’s another one. 8. 9% said they’d rather give up a year of their life. Really? Right. And I think that maybe when you feel like you have so many years to live, like if you’re 17 and you think you’re going to live till 95, you think, oh, what’s 94 to 95? I definitely don’t think that way because I want my life to go on and on.

[00:05:17] Jess O’Reilly: Here, here’s a shocker. 5% said they’d forfeit five years of their life and 3% said they’d give up a decade.

[00:05:25] Brandon Ware: Really? This is fascinating. I can’t imagine giving up a decade or even five years. One year. I wouldn’t. If you hear, do it to me. No, I wouldn’t give, I wouldn’t give up sex. I wouldn’t give up face to face contact with anybody.

[00:05:39] Brandon Ware: I wouldn’t, I definitely wouldn’t give up a year. Forget three or five, uh, sorry, five years or a decade. Um, anything else in there that my, what are my options here? What else?

[00:05:49] Jess O’Reilly: You know, it’s interesting because you know, we can’t just say, one thing leads to another, but I was thinking about the fact that so many people I talked to don’t want to get old or they don’t want to live until they’re old.

[00:05:59] Jess O’Reilly: You know, they have this [00:06:00] idea that, you know, being old might mean a loss of capacity, whether it be physical or mental or otherwise. And I think because I am around old people who are thriving, like I think about my auntie who’s 76, my uncle who’s 76, and I’m like, they’re living their Best lives

[00:06:17] Brandon Ware: we just I had a conversation last night with the parent of one of our neighbors.

[00:06:21] Brandon Ware: She’s 82 She just flew here from Australia. And do you know we were just chatting. So she does Pilates She can hold the two minute plank piece of cake. She’s like I can I can hold a plank for two minutes. She does it

[00:06:32] Jess O’Reilly: Okay, so I know what you’re talking about. I had no clue. She was in her 80s

[00:06:35] Brandon Ware: Yeah

[00:06:35] Jess O’Reilly: These role models inspire me and I do think that when you’re around And the older you get the more you’re around older people, right?

[00:06:41] Jess O’Reilly: Like I have Friends who are young and friends who are older and our parents are getting older and so we see more of that So I guess 80 doesn’t sound as scary as it might have when we were younger

[00:06:52] Brandon Ware: I saw something the other day that said 120 is the new 80.

[00:06:55] Jess O’Reilly: I hope so, man I want to live. Anyhow, just something to think about when we think about you know 8.

[00:07:00] Jess O’Reilly: 8% of people being willing to give up sex rather than social media now that that’s also fine If you’re not really that into sex if the sex isn’t that good and I think that social media gets painted as all bad because there was another piece out of this study that found that the earlier you have a device, so whether you’re given a phone at 8 versus say 14, the lower your positive mental health outcomes.

[00:07:24] Jess O’Reilly: So we do need to look at how social media is adversely affecting us. We definitely need to set, set limits like you use the 15 minute rule on your phone. I hide accounts or unfollow accounts that I find distress me or activate me or trigger me. But I, I also I always worry that one generation is saying to the next generation, the new thing that you’re into is bad.

[00:07:46] Jess O’Reilly: Like, I think back to like Footloose and dancing. Dancing is bad. Dating yourself there. Dancing is bad. I, yeah, I only saw it a few years ago, actually. When was Footloose out? It was in the early 80s. Oh, okay. So yeah, I wasn’t obviously watching it at that time, [00:08:00] but social media is not all bad. And I think what we need And the reason I was drawn to this study, I think what we need is more education, more context, more open discussions that don’t polarize but actually listen to young people and what the draw of social media is.

[00:08:15] Jess O’Reilly: And this aligns with my experience in sex ed. So for those of you who don’t know, I was a high school teacher and that’s how I found myself in this field. And I think with young folks, and especially with generational sharings and learnings, if you just judge and say like, you young people bad, old people good, I think we lose them.

[00:08:30] Jess O’Reilly: So I think these conversations need to be centered on the folks who are most affected, driven by them, maybe facilitated by them, as opposed to, I always think about outsiders studying others, right? So, when I, we think about different areas of our identity, we talk about nothing about us without us, I think we need to really think about that in terms of age and who is conducting these studies and how they’re framing them.

[00:08:53] Jess O’Reilly: Because I, I think there’s so much positive to take from social media, but we are also seeing these potentially. Adverse outcomes and not all of these are adverse, right? Like maybe it’s no big deal to not go to a restaurant. We’re very spoiled that we even get to go to restaurants. Maybe for many people, sex isn’t a big deal.

[00:09:08] Jess O’Reilly: And that’s also okay. You decide what sex means to you. Now, face to face contact, listen, I’m supposed to not judge, but I definitely have some worries around that. But I also know on top and talking to parents and talking to some kind of older teens, early twenties, there are a lot of people who aren’t feeling so comfortable with face to face contact.

[00:09:25] Jess O’Reilly: You know, they had three years or maybe not. Full three years, but a couple years of learning from home that shifted feelings around being around people face to face anxieties And you know, I’m hearing about so many people who sent their kids off to college for year one college and they came home They were like I can’t do this.

[00:09:43] Jess O’Reilly: This isn’t for me I want to be back in my home in my safety zone with my family

[00:09:47] Brandon Ware: But you also said that that study, it was a contact, physical contact outside of the home. So maybe their, their household, they’re very close. They’re very tight. They have the connections that they need there that they don’t need to get that fulfillment [00:10:00] outside of the home.

[00:10:00] Brandon Ware: So I could see how you can still communicate with people, have a laugh. Like I, I do that with people around the world where, you know, somebody is in Jamaica and I’m sending them a video that. Just made me laugh. And I know that it’s going to make them laugh too. So I have that connection. I can have that conversation and I’m still getting, you know, perhaps you’re still getting the physical contact, a connection with people in their household.

[00:10:16] Brandon Ware: So that’s worth considering. And also, as you said, as I’ve gotten older, I realized that more and more people are less receptive to the ideas of what younger people have. And I have to catch myself and I’m like, you know what? You’ve got a great idea. I want to be receptive. I want to be open to that because I do find a lot of my friends and a lot of people that I talk to is just I’m older, I’m set in my ways and they, they kind of gravitate towards that as something like a badge of honor.

[00:10:40] Brandon Ware: Well, I know better and this and that. Do you though? Because innovation, new ideas, great ways to communicate. People are doing that and they’re also younger generations are thriving. Like we’re looking and we’re being so critical, but a lot of them are changing the world. And I want to be receptive to that when I’m in my forties, fifties, sixties, eighties,

[00:11:02] Jess O’Reilly: nineties, because I,

[00:11:03] Brandon Ware: well, no, I’m going to skip over seventies, but you know what I want those, I want younger generations to also want to be around me.

[00:11:11] Brandon Ware: When I’m older, and I think if you’re set in your ways, at least what I perceive, the people that I know that are very stubborn and are older, I’m, I don’t want to be around them. I don’t.

[00:11:21] Jess O’Reilly: Well, I look at who we’re really attracted to being around and my auntie and my uncle who are in their mid seventies getting into their late seventies are in our inner circle.

[00:11:31] Jess O’Reilly: Like they’re in our top 10 of people that we will go out of our way to spend time with and there’s, there’s a reason for that. One thing I’m really admiring and I’m getting off topic, we got to get to the belly button, is that older generations are so open to learning in both directions. It’s not just imparting knowledge on younger people, but I’m seeing that.

[00:11:49] Jess O’Reilly: in one of, in my family where there’s three generations and they’re all learning from one another and growing and I think that’s a really exciting thing. So okay, social media, not all bad, but [00:12:00] definitely a surprising stat and I’m going to go put out a survey, a poll on Instagram to find out what you would give up.

[00:12:07] Jess O’Reilly: Ooh. Instead of social media. Love it. Get those up there. Um, before we get started into the listener question, I want to shout out a partner brand. And this is a brand that I’m involved with as an investor on the investment side. And that brand is Blumi. B L O O M I. So Blumi not so long ago launched and closed a fundraising round on WeFunder.

[00:12:29] Jess O’Reilly: And it caught my attention because it’s a sexologist led brand, it’s a Latina founded brand. And before this latest round, they had already raised 1. 5 million, um, from angels and VCs. So I think if I’m not… I think if I read the statements correctly, they’re out over 2 million rays now, but more importantly, and what attracted me to the brand is they have some really standout features.

[00:12:49] Jess O’Reilly: So they established the industry’s first clean standard for intimacy products in the US. So their lubricants are 510k cleared by the FDA. They’re one of the few organic clean lubricants in the country. Their toys are made with medical grade silicone, not silicone, not just, you know, body safe silicone, which is more of an ambiguous term that doesn’t necessarily.

[00:13:11] Jess O’Reilly: Disclose all the materials. Uh, they make sustainable, really high quality products at a very accessible price point. Their products are ergonomic and they’re designed with accessibility in mind, with consideration of various hand sizes and body sizes and abilities and flexibilities. They also prioritize sustainability and they have eco friendly packaging.

[00:13:32] Jess O’Reilly: I know it’s made from recyclable sugar cane, recyclable plastic, treeless cartons that are. Compostable, compostable, and okay, so they’re available at Target, which is really exciting. So over a thousand stores, they’re the first Latina founded brand in Target’s sexual wellness aisle. So please do check them out, Bloomy.

[00:13:52] Jess O’Reilly: They’ve built a collaborative community and an education site online at thebloomy. com. And so if you’re off to [00:14:00] Target, please check them out, pick them up in the sexual wellness aisle. I was looking online this morning at Target’s site. And they’re Blumi products. So my pick is the Blumi massage, waterproof and rechargeable vibrator.

[00:14:12] Jess O’Reilly: And it’s round, like a, sort of like a computer mouse and a little bit flat. And, but obviously, you know, not totally flat and it’s smooth and it’s silky and it’s around 35. Okay. Yeah. So it’s reasonable. Yeah. And when I looked this morning, Target had a promo on for 20% off for pickup of items and same day delivery.

[00:14:31] Jess O’Reilly: So please do check them out. And their website, if you want to go directly, is the. Again, it’s B L O O M I, but check them out at Target because that’s exciting news and I’m just excited to see how they grow.

[00:14:44] Brandon Ware: Great company to get behind too, because I think the percentage of, uh, women, women led VC startups that get funding is, is something abysmal.

[00:14:52] Brandon Ware: It’s like 2% or something.

[00:14:54] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah, and especially for a woman of color.

[00:14:56] Brandon Ware: For them to be where they are is a success story in itself, but also, you know, listen, hope that they continue to thrive and do well. They’re doing awesome stuff.

[00:15:04] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah. I’m really, really excited. And I like their social content. They’ve had a whole bunch of really good messaging that’s gone viral.

[00:15:10] Jess O’Reilly: So yeah, cool story. Keep an eye on them. Bloomy. And, uh, all right, let’s dive into. Belly Buttons. I love this. Okay, I’m gonna read what they wrote in. Me and my partner, fiancé, future wife, need your advice. We need your help, tips, info, opinions, thoughts. Ooh, lots of things. All right. We’re both in our early 20s and basically my partner has this weird obsession.

[00:15:32] Jess O’Reilly: Fetish, kink, for my outie belly button, where my belly button sticks out and she wants to do a lot of things all over it. So, play with it in different ways, with her tongue, by licking my belly button. She wants to do raspberries or belly farts all over it, uh, blowing raspberries to make that farting noise.

[00:15:51] Jess O’Reilly: She wants to suck on my outie belly button. bite, nibble playfully. She wants to eat and lick whipped cream, honey, [00:16:00] chocolate, chocolate sauce, ice cream out of it like a dessert. And I’m really self conscious over my outie belly button as well because I’m also really ticklish and self conscious about having an outie in general.

[00:16:11] Jess O’Reilly: I don’t know why I have an outie and that ticklish sensation. Sorry, it’s a little, it’s a long hair. That ticklish sensitive belly sensation is a general experience for me. But I want, I want to give things a go and go down the road of belly button play worship fetishes to see if I love or like the feeling of my belly being teased or blown on or played with and licked and sucked.

[00:16:35] Jess O’Reilly: And I want to know what things and ways I can play with her belly button, which is an innie. And I want to know how I can make raspberries. Or the best sound on her belly button, and I want to know how to lick her innie.

[00:16:49] Brandon Ware: I have a question right off the bat. Given her kink, her fetish, what they had described about her desire for her love for this belly button, did they know, did she know before that he had this?

[00:17:03] Brandon Ware: Outie because imagine she falls in love or she she’s attracted to him and then all of a sudden Whip up goes the t shirt and it’s like super turned on

[00:17:12] Jess O’Reilly: fireworks,

[00:17:13] Brandon Ware: right?

[00:17:13] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah. Well, I don’t think it goes in your dating profile

[00:17:16] Brandon Ware: No, well, that’s what I mean. It’s like hey, I’m Brandon. I’ve also got an outie

[00:17:19] Jess O’Reilly: But if we all met topless that would help true True.

[00:17:23] Jess O’Reilly: This is why I’m against shirts. You’re also against pants. I hate pants. You know I don’t like, I want pants banned. Um, so thank you so much for sharing this and you know you said it’s, it’s a weird thing but it doesn’t sound weird at all. To me it sounds fun and exciting and also really common. So I was looking at how common a belly button fetish is and In 2012, apparently it was the second most common fetish search, according to Google, second to the heel fetish.

[00:17:49] Jess O’Reilly: I don’t see it on the top ten list for 2023, but that doesn’t mean people aren’t still searching on other sites like Pornhub and other tube sites and making a ton of requests. I was talking to a couple of [00:18:00] performers on some webcams and they get a ton of requests around the belly button and there’s a name for arousal related to the navel and that’s alvinophilia.

[00:18:08] Jess O’Reilly: Like Alvin and the Chipmunks and then Ophelia. And there are so many theories as to why the navel is such a source of erotic fascination and pleasure. So we’ve got the simple fact that there’s this proximity to the genitals without the stress and the pressure. of a visible or tactile response, right?

[00:18:28] Jess O’Reilly: Like the genitals are expected to respond in a certain way. It’s not a fair expectation, but it is a common sociocultural expectation that there’s going to be an erection or lubrication. And so a lot of us will get in our head about that. And so we Derive more pleasure from other body parts, but we don’t have that same pressure.

[00:18:46] Jess O’Reilly: So there’s that practical positioning and the dense nerve endings in the region. And so many people will actually say that they experienced sensations in their clitoris through the belly button, which might be attributable to a nerve pathway that connects it to the spine through the pelvic region. So there’s just the.

[00:19:03] Jess O’Reilly: the proximity, the excitement of it. There’s also this primal piece, right? The belly button is the giver of life. We have this primal attraction to early experiences and the body’s, I think, reproductive and giving capacity because this is the spot that tethered you to your bearer. So there’s something really powerful, I think, about life’s origins here.

[00:19:24] Jess O’Reilly: And from the, I think the visual piece, cause you know, you’re saying that she’s attracted to your outie. I think the individual variation of belly buttons, right? So innies, outies, flat ones, long ones, wide ones, oblong ones, ring like ones. Like I think about all the people whose belly buttons I see regularly.

[00:19:42] Jess O’Reilly: So it’s usually, you know, people we hang out with in a hot. hot location when we’re on the, on the water. And it is fascinating how different, how unique belly buttons are, how much they vary even among family and siblings. And so not that you’re, you know, aroused by a sibling’s belly button, but what I’m [00:20:00] saying is just that unique variation, like a fingerprint, like eyes, like lips, uh, like the genitals.

[00:20:05] Brandon Ware: What about the, like the sensitivity and the vulnerability of that whole region? Like, I think I don’t enjoy having my abdomen touched, but I mean, there’s other layers to that, but I’m just thinking about my abdomen is sensitive. Like my, my midriff.

[00:20:21] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah. But yeah, you don’t like that or your touch. Let’s talk about that.

[00:20:23] Brandon Ware: Let’s do it.

[00:20:25] Jess O’Reilly: So why?

[00:20:25] Brandon Ware: I think I’m self conscious. I think there’s an element of, of, you know, yeah, I’m self conscious. I, I think that’s probably the biggest one. Yeah.

[00:20:34] Jess O’Reilly: I like your belly button. Why, thank you. I like to put things in your belly button, you know. Would you like the raspberry in my belly button?

[00:20:39] Jess O’Reilly: Not so much raspberry for me personally, but if you’re into that, that’s cool too to me. There’s some power in. Subversion. And when we think about subversion, I think about the fact that there’s so much shame attached to our bellies. Right? So the active or the experience of eroticizing and taking pleasure in an area that’s often hidden, that’s often in an unnatural, uncomfortable, sucked in state because of near impossible beauty standards.

[00:21:07] Jess O’Reilly: I think there’s something Very exciting about that, right? And when we think about the rarity of outies or protruding belly buttons, which, so apparently they account for about 10% of belly buttons.

[00:21:18] Brandon Ware: I’m glad you had that statistic. Cause I wanted to ask you that question. I was like, what percentage of people have an outie?

[00:21:23] Jess O’Reilly: So it’s 10%. I had to go look that up. Yeah. It can be very exciting. And. You know, it’s interesting because in your case, for this person, if you’re feeling like your body or your belly or your outie are being fetishized, you have to decide kind of what works for you because you mentioned that you’re self conscious about it.

[00:21:38] Jess O’Reilly: So, I want to say, if at any point you’re feeling like, no, I’m not into this or I’m not ready to explore that side, that’s okay, too. If you want to do some things and not others, that’s fine. You don’t have to do everything your partner wants, but because you’re asking about options, and you listed a whole bunch, it sounds like you’re definitely open to it at times.

[00:21:54] Jess O’Reilly: So I think you may want to… Embrace that or take comfort in the fact that pleasure can offset [00:22:00] that self consciousness, right? The eroticization of discomfort can be soothing and healing and therapeutic, both temporarily and in the long run. Like, so if we go back to your belly, I love touching your stomach.

[00:22:13] Jess O’Reilly: Mm hmm. I love it. Yeah, it’s warm. I like your belly button. I always, you notice, I always put my hands there. And quite frankly, you’ve told me not to.

[00:22:21] Brandon Ware: I’ve asked you not to, but I think if I were to kind of embrace that, the, you know, the comfort of just having that space touch it, as I had mentioned, it’s really sensitive, like to light touch.

[00:22:32] Brandon Ware: I find it. And it can be very arousing.

[00:22:34] Jess O’Reilly: I think when you, I don’t want to speak for you when you lie on your back, you’re more comfortable than if I just come up to you from behind when you’re standing. Is that true?

[00:22:42] Brandon Ware: I’m not sure. I know what you mean. What do you mean when? So I’m yeah. I mean, if I’m lying on my.

[00:22:46] Brandon Ware: back and then you just approach and touch my abdomen, is that what you mean?

[00:22:49] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah, like if I’m touching it, you never push me away, but if, if during, during like sex play, right? But during the day, I notice you kind of recoil when I touch you.

[00:23:00] Brandon Ware: You make it sound so nice. No, uh, I would agree. I don’t think it bothers me as much when I’m lying on my back.

[00:23:06] Brandon Ware: And then, yeah, if you come and approach me then.

[00:23:09] Jess O’Reilly: And also maybe because you’re kind of more aroused.

[00:23:13] Brandon Ware: And on the flip side, you really enjoy having your. Like when I touch your abdomen.

[00:23:17] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah, so I like my stomach. And I have a really long belly button. Yes, you do. There could be like a little fish living in there or something.

[00:23:24] Jess O’Reilly: Um, I don’t know why I had to go there. But I feel like the stomach is a spot that nobody else touches. You know, somebody can put their hand on my shoulder. You know, when you play sports, somebody might. Touch your leg, but nobody ever touches your stomach. Rarely. Yeah. And so it’s, it’s intimate. It’s kind of like special.

[00:23:43] Jess O’Reilly: It’s unique. I definitely feel violated. When people kind of put, you know, when sometimes people want to harass you basically, and they’ll, people you barely know, put their hands around your race, your waist, in this sort of power move.

[00:23:55] Brandon Ware: Uh, I definitely see it as a power move.

[00:23:57] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah. And so I definitely [00:24:00] feel that it’s a vulnerable area.

[00:24:01] Jess O’Reilly: It’s a personal area. And of course, there’s huge individual variation in that. Not everybody feels that way. But there is the taboo nature we could talk about as well, like especially in Western cultures that hide. the midriff and even enact dress codes against midriff exposure. There’s other cultures where the midriff is often more often exposed, but in Western culture, oftentimes it’s hidden.

[00:24:25] Jess O’Reilly: And so that taboo element can also be very exciting. But I want to go to you for your stomach and this person, because it sounds like there’s a little bit of, you know, conflicting experience here where you want to derive the pleasure but also you’ve always felt self conscious and I think it’s important to just know that without pressure, whenever you derive any sort of pleasure from a body part or a message or an experience that was previously negative or shameful or draining, the response can be so much more intense and I want to bring something up and I’m, I’m thinking about a case that I worked with around breasts where one partner was into their partner’s breasts and the other wasn’t.

[00:25:07] Jess O’Reilly: So this was a discordant dynamic in terms of attraction. So one partner said she adored her partner’s breasts. They were her favorite thing about her partner. But the partner, person number two, explained that while they appreciated the adoration and the attraction, their breasts actually felt discordant with their identity.

[00:25:24] Jess O’Reilly: So even though they could sometimes get pleasure from them, they actually didn’t like them on their body. And so it was this weird feeling where their partner really liked them and they had this conversation and I’m privileged to have been there. And when they came to this learning, this realization together, The first partner, the one who adored their partner’s breasts was so loving and caring and said, I remember her saying something along the lines of, you know, as much as I adore your breasts, I appreciate that discordance and how it affects your pleasure.

[00:25:51] Jess O’Reilly: And they had this amazing conversation around how to enjoy and adore and play and create pleasure in light of the discordance. And I guess the brief summary is in the [00:26:00] end, what they really learned was that sometimes partner number two. was in the mood to make their breasts a part of their sex play and sometimes they weren’t.

[00:26:06] Jess O’Reilly: So the two of them just had to check in to see what kind of day or what kind of interaction it was going to be. And this isn’t an outcome that’s generalizable, but I love and appreciate this outcome and getting to witness it because it really speaks to the fact that there are no answers. There’s no universal answers and what you want.

[00:26:24] Jess O’Reilly: Especially as it pertains to your body can change from day to day. So you need to be with a partner or partners who are responsive to that and honor that as an opportunity for understanding and deeper pleasure and connection rather than seeing it as a deficit. And to me, this is such a big, you know, a reminder that what we want changes from day to day.

[00:26:43] Jess O’Reilly: So as you explore this belly button pleasure or fetish or however you, however you want to frame it, know that. What you love one day may not be what you love the next. And um, oh, one other thing I wanted to mention. I think there’s also an evolutionary attraction to orifices and protrusions on our bodies.

[00:27:02] Jess O’Reilly: I think, because when we think of sex, we often think of it as penetrative. So this little space or this little bump, right? And the center of, center of your body can be so fascinating and so exciting.

[00:27:12] Brandon Ware: I would agree. I mean, Yeah, I would agree.

[00:27:15] Jess O’Reilly: So I think what we can do now is talk a little bit about some of the ways you can explore this belly button pleasure.

[00:27:21] Jess O’Reilly: And to me, the body is your unlimited wonderland, right? You already mentioned a whole bunch of ways, including raspberries and licking. And I wish I could tell you how to make the biggest raspberry. I don’t, I don’t have the expertise on that, but we could start with the sensual, right? So there’s sensual play where it’s maybe tickling with your tongue or your fingertips or your nipple.

[00:27:41] Jess O’Reilly: Maybe there’s some sucking. Around the area, in the area, um, on its own or with an added liquid, or drink, or food. Like, I love the idea of wine out of the belly button. To me, there’s something so erotic and sensual about that.

[00:27:54] Brandon Ware: I immediately think of the mess. Ha ha.

[00:27:58] Jess O’Reilly: Get a no more wet spot [00:28:00] blanket. There could be suction and you can create suction in so many ways, right?

[00:28:04] Jess O’Reilly: So you could put your palm over there, any belly button, with some pressure to create a bit of a vacuum, right, or you can use a flat toy to do the same. I know people who do cupping in the area, right, with your hand or a cupping device. You could play with teasing and deprivation. the sounds, right? You’ve got slurping, sucking, raspberries, vibing, like moaning, all of that.

[00:28:27] Jess O’Reilly: Maybe even tuning into the sounds their stomach makes. I know there are people who are turned on by a groaning, grumbly stomach.

[00:28:34] Brandon Ware: Well, they’d be super turned on by me because my stomach is always making noise.

[00:28:38] Jess O’Reilly: Because you forget to eat. Yes, I do forget to eat. There’s also the visual elements. Some people just like to look, right?

[00:28:44] Jess O’Reilly: You could tune into it during sex play. It could be the mere sight of being flashed. You can do the talk side of the sensual, right? Talking about how much you like it, why you like it, what you want to do. You can do a bunch of rolling with your tongue around, inside, over, and anything you can, almost anything you do an innie, you can do to an outie, right?

[00:29:04] Jess O’Reilly: I mean, there’s some small differences, but there’s so much you can play with there.

[00:29:08] Brandon Ware: I was also thinking that Maybe before any of this, there could also be, you know, he could just fantasize on his own and determine whether or not he. appreciates or he likes any of this. I mean, I’ve noticed that recently, even myself.

[00:29:19] Brandon Ware: It’s like, start to, you know, think of different fantasies to see like, how do I respond to that? Do I like it? Do I not like it? Because if, if he’s nervous about it, then it’s a great way to maybe just consider what you do and don’t like before you jump in.

[00:29:30] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah. I think that’s a great suggestion and I won’t make you share it, but you shared fantasy the other day that I think you were surprised you liked.

[00:29:37] Brandon Ware: Yeah, I was, I’m not going to get into the details right now, but I also think that. I was lying in bed, couldn’t sleep. I was sleeping. You were sleeping, so I didn’t bother you.

[00:29:46] Jess O’Reilly: Oh my God. Thank God. I was so tired that night.

[00:29:48] Brandon Ware: That’s how, that’s how we do. Um, but I, I was like, yeah, I’m just going to kind of think about these things.

[00:29:54] Brandon Ware: And, and I thought to myself, I could see mentally, I was pushing this thought away. And then I was like, [00:30:00] you know what, I’m going to lean into it a little bit. And, and then when I did, I was like, okay, you know what? I could see myself potentially liking it, even if it’s only in fantasy. Even if it’s not in real life, but at least it gives me an opportunity to, to have a conversation with you about it after, which I did, and it was, and you know what, and it, and whether anything comes of it, who knows, but it was just, I, I, I think my willingness to think about it really kind of just opens new doors and new pathways to new opportunity, new pleasure, new ideas, new conversations, which I thought was great.

[00:30:33] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah, no, that’s a great point too. Thank you. Do it on your own first and see how you feel about it with no pressure, right? Some of these things you’ll love, some of them you won’t. I was thinking also about torture. There’s so much torture play with all body parts, but with the belly button, you’ve got like heat play, you’ve got ice play, you can play with different pressures and penetration.

[00:30:52] Jess O’Reilly: Uh, some people will play with piercing play. So a little bit of tugging and pressure and cooling and making sure that you’re always prioritizing safety, right? Like cleaning and drying the area. Many people are into belly button worship. So, that might involve buying jewels, or piercings, or chains to adorn the belly button area.

[00:31:11] Jess O’Reilly: It might be worship in the context of a dominance and submission role, like anything you can do in BDSM. You can expand to any part of your body. I mentioned briefly deprivation, but there can be something really fun. Fun about this hot act that you are craving or your partner is craving, like the raspberries, right?

[00:31:30] Jess O’Reilly: If you move into a dominant role where you disallow that for some time, and then it can be more powerful when it finally arrives. Or you can do edging play where it’s like a little raspberry is allowed or a raspberry is allowed in the area, but not directly over it. So there’s Oh, so much fun. You can have.

[00:31:45] Jess O’Reilly: I, I am just so glad you wrote in, I think about all the different. Toys and accoutrements you can use, like filling it up with. You’re having fun here, aren’t you? Yeah, I like, I like it a lot, like decorating it. I’m using a pointy tip of a vibe, like I was thinking about the WeVibe Tango [00:32:00] X would go really well in there.

[00:32:02] Jess O’Reilly: Also Bloomy, they have a longer G spot vibe, like a curved one that’s also available, available at Target, and it would fit right over the opening. Right. And kind of fill it up there. And you could probably feel a bit of suction and you could use suction toys over it. Oh, yeah. All of the womanizer products

[00:32:20] Brandon Ware: or be a three hour podcast here.

[00:32:23] Jess O’Reilly: Do you want me to stop? No, no, I’m just laughing and pinwheels, you know, the pinwheels with the sharp edges that you roll over it or massage candles or East stems for that electronic play. And then, of course, the practicality of any sort of co stimulation, meaning anything that you’re already doing sexually that feels so good, just adding in a little bit of belly button play, whether it’s physical stimulation, or some of the talk around it, or some of the worship, or the visual elements, or the sound, the audio elements.

[00:32:53] Jess O’Reilly: I think there’s just so much opportunity here. So, you know, the short form is this is amazing. Explore it in however you feel works for you. Be open to the fact that how you feel about an area that you’re self conscious or have been previously self conscious of may shift over time. And hopefully in the long run, it helps to assuage some of the self consciousness.

[00:33:15] Jess O’Reilly: Because of course, when there’s a minority occurrence of something in our bodies, we feel self conscious about it. It’s pretty common, even though there’s no reason to feel self conscious because 10% of the population is still a whole lot of people in this busy, busy planet. So thank you so much for writing in and sharing and letting me talk about belly buttons because that was really fun for me.

[00:33:36] Jess O’Reilly: And thanks for. Sharing babe about your stomach. I think that’s like a conversation. We need to take offline

[00:33:41] Brandon Ware: Yeah, I’m looking forward to seeing the results of your your polls your surveys about the sex and social media

[00:33:48] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah, please follow me on Instagram sex with dr. Jess. You can even follow Brandon.

[00:33:52] Jess O’Reilly: I’ll I’ll link to him Your stuff is more more exciting I don’t know. You share it. So we’re, we’re good. Sex with Dr. Jess on Instagram. Thank

[00:34:00] you to Bloomi for all the amazing work they’re doing. Please do go look for Bloomi in Target and support this amazing brand that’s doing really cool work in the sexual wellness field.

[00:34:11] Jess O’Reilly: Thanks, babe.

[00:34:12] Brandon Ware: Thank you.

[00:34:12] Jess O’Reilly: Thanks to the person who wrote in and wherever you’re at, folks. I hope you have a great one.

[00:34:19] Jess O’Reilly: You’re listening to the sex with dr. Jess podcast improve your sex life improve your life