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Sex with Dr. Jess


June 8, 2023

Swallowing, Gag Reflexes & SLPs

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  • What are swallowing disorders?
  • Who can benefit from the support of a Swallowologist?
  • Can you learn to control your gag reflex?
  • What do therapists need to learn from SLPs?

Scientist and professor; Dr. Ianessa Humbert joins Jess and Brandon to address these questions and more.

Dr.Humbert has been on faculty at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, the University of Florida, and the University of Iowa. She has also co-founded a range of online learning tools including STEP (Swallowing Training and Education Portal), lovingly known as Swallowing Netflix. The content from Dr. Humbert’s courses are supported by scientific evidence from her laboratory, from the larger body of research literature, and of course, common sense!

Follow along and learn more about her work on Instagram and Twitter.

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Rough Transcript:

This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health, or other professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.

Swallowing, Gag Reflexes & SLPs

Episode 320

[00:00:00] You’re listening to The Sex with Dr. Jess podcast, sex and Relationship Advice you can use tonight.

[00:00:15] Brandon Ware: Welcome to the Sex with Dr. Jess podcast. I’m your cohost Brandon here with my lovely other half, Dr. Jess.

[00:00:21] Jess O’Reilly: Happy to be back on solid ground. I bet you are. Yeah. The, the world is still moving for me. After getting off the cruise,

[00:00:28] Brandon Ware: how long does that last for you?

[00:00:30] Jess O’Reilly: For most people, it lasts like a day or two for me, I’m, I’m still going in, I, I don’t know if it’s because I feel like I’m swaying back and forth gently, like I’m still on the boat, but also just spending a week with so many happy couples. On the desire cruise. I just can’t stop reflecting on all the lessons, all the conversations.

[00:00:48] Jess O’Reilly: It’s kind of interesting, right? Rather than having, you know, intense sessions with individuals or individual couples. You talk to so many people over breakfast, lunch, dinner, walks in the port, and the big lesson, my big takeaway, and I’ve been posting about this on Instagram with more specificity. My big takeaway from the whole cruise and all these couples is do not wait.

[00:01:10] Jess O’Reilly: Like act now in your relationships, but also in life. If you’re unhappy, don’t assume that things will get better. Don’t leave it the first sign, but also don’t stick around or stay quiet because what, what we’re hearing is, you know, you’ll blink and 2, 4, 10, 20 years pass you by. And on the flip side, you know, kind of off the cruise from other people.

[00:01:31] Jess O’Reilly: I’m hearing from so many people right now who are. Unhappy in their relationships. I mean, to the point that they’re down so much of the time, like they can’t focus on work because they’re preoccupied with conflict or hurt or stress or betrayal in their relationships. And what I’m really saying seeing is that they don’t wanna face it.

[00:01:49] Jess O’Reilly: You know? So they focus on their kids instead, and there’s an avoidance. They’re really not ready for either the tough conversations or in many cases, the tough decision, right? [00:02:00] This is what I’m seeing. So the decision is, do I wanna stay? Partners, like life partners with someone who isn’t a fit for me or whose behavior causes me ongoing distress for months, for years.

[00:02:11] Jess O’Reilly: Do I wanna say with someone who cheats or someone who refuses to have sex or even talk about it, or someone who I just don’t like now that I really know them. And the cruise, of course, it was the opposite of this. Um, you know, the opposite of waiting to live or just being complacent or distracting yourself.

[00:02:27] Jess O’Reilly: And we are so lucky, you know, we talked to, you know, more than a hundred people on the cruise who are, I think living. With so few regrets, and I’m not saying like, you know, if you go on the cruises, you’re the happiest couples ever. It’s just that they’re living their lives. You know, they’re saying we’re so happy that we spoke up about our desires or our sexuality.

[00:02:45] Jess O’Reilly: They’re so happy because now they understand each other better. You know, there are a few cases where they talk about the fact that they split from a previous partner, a partner that they’d been with a long time, and they’re living a more fulfilled and authentic life on their own with a new partner. So, And again, I’m not here saying break up with your partners, but I, I also think we can’t assume that things are going to get better unless we do a lot about it.

[00:03:06] Jess O’Reilly: And if you’ve got a partner who’s not willing to do a lot about it, who’s not willing to talk, or who’s not willing to really look at their own behavior, it sucks, man. Like this is what I’m seeing is this avoidance of I don’t wanna make this decision and you don’t have to make it today. I’m not telling people like, go figure your stuff out.

[00:03:20] Jess O’Reilly: But my big takeaway from the cruise is live. Now, like not only in relationships, but at work with friends, with loved ones in, in life more generally.

[00:03:29] Brandon Ware: Hmm. Yeah, no, it was really interesting to see and I agree. I mean, I saw a lot of that and I think that really summarizes everything live Now maybe understand that there are some challenges that you need to face, but face them and you know, Move forward.

[00:03:44] Jess O’Reilly: Right. And again, it’s not run at the first sign of trouble or anything like that. Mm-hmm. Or run cuz you’re having a bad, you know, week or couple of months like, but really I think you think you can wait six months and then it’s six years and then it’s a decade and those are deep tracks to [00:04:00] kind of crawl your way out of.

[00:04:01] Jess O’Reilly: And so it was Yeah. Super fun to be with people who are living their lives. And I think that we had. A bit of a turning point, maybe a year into the pandemic where we made some decisions around not a relationship, but about living life in a different way.

[00:04:15] Brandon Ware: Yeah. I’ll never forget that, that meeting in the park with a friend

[00:04:18] Jess O’Reilly: Jackson.

[00:04:19] Brandon Ware: Yeah. And that question that he posed that we all get asked where it’s like, what do you want to do with your life? And

[00:04:25] Jess O’Reilly: he really asked, what are you waiting for?

[00:04:27] Brandon Ware: Yeah. I think that was it. What are you waiting for? And I remember thinking like, what are we waiting for? And I think because we were forced. To stay home or stay in our, our communities for such a prolonged period of time, that it really gave me an opportunity to reflect on that. Did you, did you feel the same way?

[00:04:41] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, it changed for you the way you were. Yeah, absolutely. And it changed the way, the way we live, where we live, how we move about, who we spend our time with. So just another reminder, so I guess. I, I would, I would, this doesn’t sound like me to say this, but the universe is speaking to us.

[00:04:57] Jess O’Reilly: All right.

[00:04:57] Jess O’Reilly: So we got an interesting topic today, but I definitely, before we dive in, wanna shout out a new product, super innovative product. So it’s not often that products come onto the market that are really, really different. And this one is so cool. This is the wave. By womanizer, and so we’re sticking with the water theme.

[00:05:14] Jess O’Reilly: It’s basically an incredible shower head that is engineered for pleasure. So you attach it to your shower, right? You just attach it to the hose. So we have a hose in each of our bathrooms. So a super easy to attach. It comes with a. Kind of this like universal screw on design with an adapter that fits onto onto ours.

[00:05:33] Jess O’Reilly: No problem. That’s supposed to fit. It’s not gonna fit every single one in the world, but I think it fits the standard shower hose.

[00:05:39] Brandon Ware: And the other thing is it, it, it is inconspicuous. Like, I mean, I think if you were to leave it on, I don’t think people would walk in and know what it is.

[00:05:47] Jess O’Reilly: No. It looks like a shower head now.

[00:05:49] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah. It’s the one that I have is, is white. Yes. So if, if it doesn’t match your color, like I’ve attached it to a, a gold hose. But I think I, I have to check if it comes in multiple colors, but [00:06:00] I’ll check that. Um, basically it comes with three different settings for external stimulation. So it’s not a regular shower head.

[00:06:05] Jess O’Reilly: It has the pleasure world setting, which I’m starting with cuz it’s my favorite. It’s kind of a. A lighter touch that’s moving and whirling in three cascades. It’s very, very cool. Then it has its pleasure jet, which is I think your typical strong pulsating jet for a more targeted stimulation, like if you like some pressure on the cl, and then it has powder rain, which is more of like a, a mis spray for free showering, and I think general pleasure across the body.

[00:06:28] Jess O’Reilly: What I really like. Is the operation of it. So it’s super easy to operate with one hand and without looking because it has this kind of big slider button. So you can just slide up and down for intensity, sort of like a, a dimmer light switch. And then it has a big button, like a big button that you can just press with your thumb, uh, to toggle through the different settings.

[00:06:47] Jess O’Reilly: And then it even has an EcoSmart function for 60% less water consumption than regular shower heads, which is kind of neat.

[00:06:55] Brandon Ware: Save the world and get off. There you go. You go. There you go.

[00:06:58] Jess O’Reilly: There you go. So yeah, it’s super fun. It’s a collaboration between womanizer and hands grow, which I guess generally makes these type of shower head products.

[00:07:06] Jess O’Reilly: But again, this one is specifically designed for pleasure and if you are interested in checking it out, I have a discount code for Love Honey. So even though it’s by womanizer, I’m gonna send you to love or love or Love Honey uk wherever you live, and you can check it out. It is the womanizer.

[00:07:23] Jess O’Reilly: By hands grow wave clitorial stimulation, shower, head at love, honey. And my discount code is Dr. Jess 15. So that’s gonna Yeah, save you a little bit of money there if you’re interested in playing in the shower.

[00:07:35] Brandon Ware: I wonder how many people bought it without knowing what it is. Do you think anybody bought it?

[00:07:39] Jess O’Reilly: Well, I don’t think it’s in the like, you know, home Depot aisle. That’s like, wonder that. No, no.

[00:07:43] Brandon Ware: Take, get rid of that. This one looks great. I love the design. And they get home. They’re like, go. Oh my God.

[00:07:47] Jess O’Reilly: Well, it’s, it’s interesting. So the reason I love this product, and I was super excited. I’ve been kind of sitting on this product for a while because I knew it was coming out.

[00:07:54] Jess O’Reilly: Ooh. You’ve been sitting on it for a while. I’ve been sitting, no, I, I, I only just received mine a couple of weeks ago, but [00:08:00] I’ve been sitting on the launch and not talking about it. But I love, I love it because for years and years and years when people were learning to explore their bodies, people had trouble orgasming.

[00:08:08] Jess O’Reilly: People wanted to learn how to have an orgasm. Running water was one of our top suggestions because, It’s kind of gentle. You can play with different, you can kind of tune into the textures, tune into the temperature sensations to the rhythm, to the pressure. I do find that being in the shower is a space where people can be a little bit more mindful and tune into their bodies.

[00:08:27] Jess O’Reilly: And, you know, when we shower, most of us are just kind of in a rush trying to get clean and get out. But I think that it’s a, it’s the perfect spot to just slow down and be in the moment and be in your body.

[00:08:36] Brandon Ware: Don’t you get, I mean, I find I’m more relaxed when I’m in the shower. To begin with, even if I’m rushing through trying to get cleaned up to go to bed or to get ready, or whatever it is I’m doing, I’m finding more relaxed.

[00:08:45] Brandon Ware: So, you know, for me it’s already, step one is check.

[00:08:48] Jess O’Reilly: Are you, have you tried the shower head yet?

[00:08:50] Brandon Ware: I haven’t yet. Okay. That’s why I’m, I’m asking all these questions. I’m like, I might spend a little extra time tonight.

[00:08:54] Jess O’Reilly: Well, now, now that we’re sharing a bathroom. Because we have a guest. We have a guest in my bathroom.

[00:08:58] Jess O’Reilly: Then now you can give it a try. As of tonight. As of tonight, tonight’s your night. Tonight’s your night. Although the, the guest, uh,

[00:09:03] Brandon Ware: is it appropriate if the guest is here and then I’m making noises in the bathroom?

[00:09:06] Jess O’Reilly: My, my cousin is staying here and, uh, Brendan also had a night terror last night that probably Oh, great.

[00:09:11] Jess O’Reilly: Woke up. Yeah, let’s talk about that. So we’ve already woken screaming anyways. Yeah. Yeah. Poor Steven’s probably already woken up. Tears your screaming in the bedroom. He might as well wake up. Tears your screaming in the shower.

[00:09:20] Brandon Ware: This is a little night terror. At least this is is a better scream.

[00:09:23] Jess O’Reilly: Steven’s on a different schedule than us, so he’s in the room next to us, probably sleeping.

[00:09:26] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah. And we’re, we’re disturbing him with our shower sex talk. All right, we’re gonna be talking about swallowing now. This is a really interesting one. And, uh, Dr. Esa Hamburg is a PhD. She’s an accomplished scientist, a professor a sought after. Speaker and her expertise is in swallowing and swallowing disorders.

[00:09:42] Jess O’Reilly: And I think when we think about swallowing, we might only think about one thing, but it’s a lot more complex and intersects with sex and pleasure and relationships in so many ways. So, uh, she’s gonna share her insight. She’s the co-founder of a range of online learning tools, including step, which is Swallowing Training and Education Portal.

[00:09:59] Jess O’Reilly: It’s [00:10:00] known as the Swallowing Netflix, and it includes, You know, information’s about so many different topics, including the swallowing neuroanatomy and physiology shorts. Uh, she’s been the, on the faculty at John Hopkins School of Medicine, the University of Florida, and the University of Iowa. So let’s dive in.

[00:10:16] Jess O’Reilly: Thank you so much for being here. Now you are, you’re an accomplished scientist, professor PhD. You have a broad range of expertise, uh, specifically in swallowing, in swallowing disorders. I’m curious, first and foremost, what issues do your clients present with that relate to sex and relationships?

[00:10:37] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Sure. So the biggest issue is going to be intimacy issues surrounding anything you might use your mouth to it for.

[00:10:45] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So it could be kissing, it could even be saying the sounds that you wanna say, because. Speech pathologist deal with communication and feeding. It can be as broad as consent and ero. LIA is erotic talk. So pillow talk, sex talk, dirty talk, and the rules and regulations around taboo language sometimes is problematic for people who don’t always know how and when to use it anymore.

[00:11:11] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So there’s some things you don’t say to your mom, then you’ve had a traumatic brain injury and now you are. So those rules sometimes go out the window and. Course what people think about first is sex related to oral sex, and those are the general reasons why our expertise overlaps with sexology.

[00:11:30] Jess O’Reilly: Okay. You know, so we met just a few weeks ago. Okay. In DC at your inaugural conference, sexology Summit. Congrats.

[00:11:37] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Thank you. Thank you. Reba Adiva. Reba Thomas is the, was the chair for that, and she’s really the person who takes the credit. But yes, I was co-chair.

[00:11:45] Jess O’Reilly: Yes. And um, this was my first time, so I’ve been to many sexuality conferences.

[00:11:50] Jess O’Reilly: Probably not as many as I should. I’m not a a great conference person, but this was my first time at any sexuality conference. Learning about your area of expertise and its intersection with [00:12:00] sexuality, education, therapy, research. I’m curious, you know, as sex therapists, as educators, as counselors, as therapists more generally, what do we need to learn from your, your area of work and research?

[00:12:11] Jess O’Reilly: Where do we even begin?

[00:12:13] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So I would start by saying, understand that the field of speech pathology, while it is in their scope of practice, To help patients with sex related issues because the World Health Organization says that rehab disciplines, really many disciplines can be involved in things on the list of activities of daily living for which sex is on there.

[00:12:34] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Despite that, we often avoid it. So you’re not gonna go up to your average SLP and be able to really talk about this. With the understanding that they’ve had the training to deal with these sensitive issues, um, in fact they might be quite uncomfortable. The story that we don’t have time for that people can find is that the field tried to strip me of my license for talking about sex with Reba on Instagram.

[00:12:59] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: And so for that reason, speech pathologists are a bit on edge and the patients can feel that anxious energy. That doesn’t mean that you should not seek the help where you can get it. We are starting to grow that area. So why that’s really important because while I’m talking about it, I’m one of very, from talking about it, so we have the expertise, but we have not yet melded it with psychology, which is why I’m talking to people.

[00:13:20] Jess O’Reilly: And so is there standardized programming or training for SLPs across the board? I think back to when I was doing my research with teachers, only 15.5% of teachers in, in my province of Ontario had mandatory training in sexual health education. Yet we had to teach it. So are you running into that? In your field, is there resistance to integrating in it into mandatory preparatory or C E U training?

[00:13:43] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: The question hasn’t even come up. It literally exists almost nowhere in any program ever. It’s not in what we call the big nine, the big nine of areas where we have to learn specific issues like stuttering, language swallowing, none of those overlap of sex. In fact, if you talk about it, you’ll probably get reported to the department chair and have [00:14:00] to explain yourself.

[00:14:00] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: People are running. From it, not the patient, the the clinicians are running from it.

[00:14:05] Jess O’Reilly: And what’s the cost of that? What’s the cost born by patients when you’ve got either professionals or more importantly, because I don’t think we can just hold individuals accountable when we’ve got professional organizations that are not only avoiding a topic, but punishing you from engaging in the topics with which patients are actually presenting.

[00:14:21] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Well, don’t forget, professions are people, professions are groups of people with. A level of group think that they’ve all decided works for them. Just like institutions are building global people. So we can hold the individuals accountable cuz they are making a decision to side with an institution for the sake of their career and their, what people are doing versus what they know the person in front of them wants.

[00:14:41] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So the cost is that people, unfortunately, uh, patients unfortunately or clients are unable to. Enjoy the fullest quality of life that they want to because we do not give them the freedom or the security to talk to us about it. In fact, we should be bringing it up and asking, how are these things so they know.

[00:14:59] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: You can talk to us about that. So people often aren’t living the life that they say they want to live in their professional capacity, and that’s because they persecute others for doing it as well. You could say all day, well, I would, but I don’t wanna get in trouble. But what do you do? Do you support other people when they do it?

[00:15:14] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: No. You’re quiet when people denounce them. So you’re. Basically compliant as well.

[00:15:19] Jess O’Reilly: And so what do we do about that? Is it possible to make inroads or change within these professions or do we have to move outside of them?

[00:15:26] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Well, the first thing that you might consider if you’re somebody who’s like, you know, I do wanna turn this corner, is find a sexologist who you can collaborate with.

[00:15:33] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: No one is saying that you need to do something that you’re unprepared to do, but at least. Give the patient the option to refer out to somebody, and then you know, you might follow up just like with any other specialty we deal with ENTs, gastroenterologists, nur, nutritionists, lactation consultants. If you are unable to talk about it, don’t just shut down the options for the client.

[00:15:53] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Because that’s what you would want to be comfortable with, refer out so that they can get the help.

[00:15:58] Jess O’Reilly: And you talked about that at the [00:16:00] conference in, in many, on many levels, right? So not just in terms of professional expertise, but also our identities and our capacities to support people based on our own experience.

[00:16:09] Jess O’Reilly: So you mentioned stroke and brain injury. How does sexual function change after these issues in terms of your area of expertise? What are they presenting with?

[00:16:18] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Right. So when you’re talking about the brain, we’re talking. When it relates to sex, talking about everything from your desire for sex, all the way to your capacity to physically engage in it.

[00:16:28] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: And so depending on where the stroke or the traumatic brain injury is, determine which of those are impacted. So for instance, it could be decision making around interacting with somebody in the, not the act of sex. But just courting somebody, understanding what consent is, giving consent, understanding the signals, all of those very complex things that you learn and you’re still learning about how do you approach somebody around these issues when you no longer have those skills to really negotiate.

[00:16:54] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Individuals in those circumstances. Sometimes you are wildly inappropriate. Often people with traumatic brain injury, they have issues around negotiating interpersonal communications of all kinds, and so where they understand the nuance of how to let. A person know that their sexually interested, they might lose that.

[00:17:13] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Right? And same thing with things like taboo language relating to cursing. So that’s one example. Or understanding consent and the complexities of consent. Not being a, a simple binary yes no, but a continuum, right? Not only that, giving consent. So that’s one aspect, that’s the higher executive function part.

[00:17:27] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: But also there’s something as simple. Could be something as simple as, I can’t move my tongue, my tongue for both. Speech and swallowing and any other movement is problematic. I can’t feel my tongue. I can’t feel my lips. I can’t move my lips. So if somebody’s having issues articulating sounds, well, they probably might have issues with movements for other functions.

[00:17:46] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: My voice doesn’t sound sexy. It sounds horrible. It sounds almost like grading, and it’s it’s turn. It’s a turn off when I get on the phone with people because it is. So problematic cuz my larynx has been impacted by the stroke. Any single thing that you might use your [00:18:00] brain, mouth, or neck for that involves sex can be impacted depending on which part of the brain is impacted.

[00:18:05] Jess O’Reilly: And so are you involved in helping people to relearn some of these skills where the capacity exists?

[00:18:11] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So I have not been directly involved in those in a clinical sense. I stopped practicing clinically years ago cause I was primarily involved in science. But lately I’ve been involved in the educational aspect and that’s what I’ve been doing partly in collaboration with.

[00:18:24] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Reba, uh, through our both group and being more of an edutainment sort of education that’s entertaining aspect to get people to wanna talk about it. But lately I’ve been interacting with more and more speech pathologists who are like, Hey, I actually really wanna incorporate this. I’m dealing with an adolescent population school system, and it is.

[00:18:41] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: It’s an undeniable issue that I need to talk about right now. So it’s more of education at the clinical level for people not practicing right now.

[00:18:48] Jess O’Reilly: Uh, well, so speaking of entertainment, you were on Love and Marriage DC

[00:18:52] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: I was

[00:18:53] Jess O’Reilly: I’m curious what you focused on on that show and what you took away from that experience.

[00:18:57] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah.

[00:18:57] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So, um, as a ologist on that show, the couple had been married for almost 30 years and they were less concerned with the fact that they just started having regular sex, but that they didn’t really like oral sex from the other person. They felt like, I wanna enjoy this. But the issue there really was a feedback issue.

[00:19:13] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Neither of them really spoke to each other about what they did and did not like, and, you know, busy parents, business owners, just sort of getting back to it and not knowing how to negotiate that kind of conversation. So again, it really wasn’t about, Whether their mouth would work, it’s whether their mouth would work when giving feedback to either person.

[00:19:30] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Right? Like, and the question is, do you have the, I think a lot of people understand that communication is really very vital for all these things, right? And your inability to. Have an uncomfortable conversation about something that you guys can practice is really the first step. And just training somebody to say, I’m comfortable enough with myself and my body to tell you what I want.

[00:19:50] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: And I know that when I tell you, you know that I’m not telling you you’re less than human or you’re not important. I’m telling you this is how to please me and please let me know how I can please you too. So that’s sort of the gist of where we [00:20:00] ended up. And yes, I did have them do some exercises that the s e C made them.

[00:20:03] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Block out with animals howling and all kinds of things. Like they were, I had them practice sucking on each other’s fingers. Right. As an example. And you’re not allowed to see that on cable. So they did some cool editing to get around that. If it was Netflix, it wouldn’t have been a problem. But you know, when is regular tv they, they do have rules, but it was fun.

[00:20:20] Jess O’Reilly: Okay, that’s very cool. Now, what’s interesting, of course, and the takeaway always is that whether you’re in your field or my field or Brandon’s field in sales, it comes down to communication. It’s not so much what we can physically do with our tongues and our lips. Everybody wants to learn the techniques.

[00:20:35] Jess O’Reilly: We are about to talk about gag reflexes and swallowing. I know folks wanna hear about that, but the foundation of all of that is the emotional literacy. And the communication, all that come together for the actual interpersonal connection. But before we get to swallowing and gag reflex, tell me why were they doing animal howling?

[00:20:55] Jess O’Reilly: Why were they sucking on one another’s fingers? What were those interventions?

[00:20:59] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Yeah, so I wanted them to practice giving feedback in a circumstance where it would be obviously more comfortable. Like I’m not gonna get in the bedroom with them because that’s not my scope of practice. But I basically said, had the husband.

[00:21:11] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Point out his index finger and have the wife demonstrate how she would provide PIO and have him give feedback about what he enjoyed. His issue was more about enthusiasm. It’s not the technique, it’s that what he would say, what this didn’t make the air, but you know, do you remember that time when you were drunk and you kind of just like lost yourself in it?

[00:21:29] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: As opposed to, okay, okay, no, let’s have sex. You know, like that kind of thing. And her issue was he had, he moved too fast. And he had too much teeth involved. And I said, did you ever tell the other this? And they’re like, no. So that exercise forced them to be involved in the motor skills as best as possible so that they could provide feedback at a, I think at a moment where the stakes were lower.

[00:21:50] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Right? Obviously there’s somebody in the room, but the stakes seemed to be higher. In the act for some reason. I think sometimes feel, people feel like communications makes it worse because if you have to tell [00:22:00] somebody what to do, it’s not sexy and spontaneous, but how would they know? We’re such complex humans.

[00:22:04] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: If you sat down for dinner with somebody for the very first time and you didn’t like beat and they made something with beats, you have to say when they go, how was dinner? At some point you can either suck at ’em and say, oh my God, it was amazing. And then just always, you know, barf up the beat later. Or you can say, You know what?

[00:22:18] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: It was great. Beats aren’t my favorite, but they go, oh, okay. It’s not a personal attack. I, you just never told me.

[00:22:23] Jess O’Reilly: Or you can tell them you loved it and the next time you come over and the next time and the next time you’re gonna get beats.

[00:22:28] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: That’s pretty damn sure.

[00:22:29] Jess O’Reilly: Right.

[00:22:30] Brandon Ware: I, I’ve gotta say though, I, I love this idea that you gave people the, an opportunity to practice, like using the fingers and, and think, and then giving feedback because what.

[00:22:39] Brandon Ware: How, when are you ever presented with that kind of an opportunity where it isn’t, you know, in the midst of doing the act, be because if it’s happening, you’re gonna be like, now you know, I don’t really like that. Hey, I need you to do this instead. So just thinking about the practicality of that, where it’s like, okay, practice on my finger.

[00:22:53] Brandon Ware: I’m gonna tell you what I like and what I don’t like, and it’s like, boom. Feedback. Amazing.

[00:22:56] Jess O’Reilly: You know what’s not fair though? Your fingers are like dick fingers.

[00:22:59] Brandon Ware: I gigantic fingers already.

[00:23:01] Jess O’Reilly: A bunch of penises all glued together.

[00:23:04] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: But I did. No, but you’re absolutely right. I told him practice in between. I said.

[00:23:08] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Don’t put all this pressure on the 1.01% of your day when you’re actually having sex. Kiss each other in between. Give feedback about kissing, you know, stop somebody on the way to get the broom from the broom closet and say, step my finger. Like, do something in between, like lower the stakes so it’s not all on this moment when you’re at the Olympics and everybody’s watching.

[00:23:27] Jess O’Reilly: I love that. And not only are you lowering the stakes, you’re making it fun. You’re making it playful, you’re making it silly. You’re giving them permission to laugh. And they always say communication is the most important part of sex. But I think sense of humor is a close second. Like, if you can’t have fun with it, if you can’t laugh at it, how are you gonna get through this thing that we’re supposed to be so serious about?

[00:23:47] Jess O’Reilly: That’s absolutely brilliant. Um, and that’s the first I’ve heard of that, so I, I love it. We’re gonna make sure you get credit for that across the board if you’re a therapist, if you are an educator and you use this exercise where you have someone’s suck on a finger, or what [00:24:00] did they do for the vulva? What did they suck on?

[00:24:01] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: They, she used her. Stuck out her, uh, index finger, like his, the knuckle part of it. And he used that as ho so sort of like this.

[00:24:08] Jess O’Reilly: Oh. And he learned to find the clitoris even better.

[00:24:10] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Yeah.

[00:24:10] Jess O’Reilly: If you use that exercise folks, make sure you are giving credit where credit is due because across the board there’s a lot of people coming up with brilliant exercises, sharing and then you put it on camera and it got cut from love and marriage DC and so I just wanna make sure you get credit.

[00:24:24] Jess O’Reilly: I love it. I think it’s, uh, an amazing exercise and a huge opportunity to have fun and change your mind and make mistakes , uh, and take the pressure off

[00:24:32] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: and remind somebody, say, remember what you did outside of the broom closet tonight. That’s what’s going be, you know what I mean?

[00:24:38] Jess O’Reilly: Who are these big people with broom closets? They must have big houses.

[00:24:41] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: I dunno why broom closet on is on my mind right now.

[00:24:43] Jess O’Reilly: My broom, like, cuz we live in a small house. My broom is wedged behind be between my fridge and my kitchen. Kitchen.

[00:24:48] Brandon Ware: That’s where I like it. I don’t want to have to take it out and use it.

[00:24:51] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: You like this, you like this wedge in air?

[00:24:55] Brandon Ware: I just wanted somewhere close to where I’m not gonna have to use it.

[00:24:58] Jess O’Reilly: I, I mean, that’s a huge piece of feedback around oral too, that around all types of sex, we want enthusiastic lovers. We don’t want partners who are like, all right, I’ll do it now. I know that that’s sometimes where some of us begin. Like if I’m really, really tired, I might be like, all right, I’m gonna go on and then I’m gonna go along for the ride and then get in the mood.

[00:25:15] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Yeah.

[00:25:16] Jess O’Reilly: But I like the idea that we’re, we’re talking about enthusiasm, because even when I talk about blow jobs, I tell them that the keys are, Lube. Yeah. Building anticipation. Yeah. And number three, enthusiasm. Like you’ve, you’ve got

[00:25:29] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Exactly. Yeah.

[00:25:30] Jess O’Reilly: You’ve gotta enjoy it. And, uh, there are so many different ways to enjoy it, whether it’s developing your own skillset, like learning a little bit, learning new techniques to boost your confidence.

[00:25:38] Jess O’Reilly: I think the number one thing, For being enthusiastic in any sex act is being turned on yourself. Like if it’s just a performance, if it’s just a showcase of your skill, if it’s just an obligation and it doesn’t feel exciting for you, how are you gonna be enthusiastic? But if you’re enjoying yourself, if you’re rubbing yourself, if you’re wearing a toy, or if you’re fantasizing, if you just got yours, if you’re looking forward to what’s gonna happen to you in just a [00:26:00] moment, you’re more likely to relax.

[00:26:01] Jess O’Reilly: And I think this falls into your area of expertise, which has to do with the gag reflex. So people who go down on penises, Oftentimes will tell me I have a really sensitive gag reflex, or I don’t like the sound of it, or I don’t like the feel of the gag reflex. And they ask me, can you learn to control your gag reflex?

[00:26:18] Jess O’Reilly: So I’m sure you have a wealth of knowledge on everything to do with the gag reflex. So I’m just gonna throw it to you. What do we need to know?

[00:26:26] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah, great

[00:26:26] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: question. So first and foremost, we talked about the brain. And remember, everything starts in the brain. You can gag at the thought of a gross thing or it actually touching your body, right?

[00:26:36] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So don’t forget people who are grossed out or have. They’re gag button triggered, they’re not exactly the same thing, right? So if you, there are some people who literally, the texture of a banana is the most disgusting thing and they can’t, they smell it, be like, Ugh, I’m gonna throw up, they nothing even touched them.

[00:26:51] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Or the actual banana touching a spot in your throat can press the gag button, if you will. Right? So I don’t wanna leave out people who are kind of grossed out by the vulva because some men actually gag because they’re grossed out by it. Or maybe there’s a. Smell what they don’t like. So gag reflex doesn’t just impact humans who are, um, interacting for felicio.

[00:27:13] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: The group that don’t wanna talk about it as much are men specifically who gag at the thought of the vulva, right? Because it, they don’t wanna turn the woman off. Whereas sometimes some men get excited, thought that, oh yeah, my dick was so big it, you know, it made her gag. So some people can get turned on by that.

[00:27:28] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So I just wanna put that out there. So what is a gag reflex in general, regardless of how it starts in general, a gag reflects is that a sensory signal enters the central nervous system that triggers a spontaneous irrepressible trick, uh, cascade of event. We call those reflexes. The gag is a reflex, just like a sneeze.

[00:27:46] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: When you blink your eye, if something comes towards you that’s too fast, knee jerks, cough, all of those things are reflexes. And our body has these protective functions to keep foreign things from killing us or from hurting us, right? [00:28:00] The airway is one of the most important things to protect. So you cough, you sneeze, and you gag.

[00:28:05] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So things don’t go too deep and cause a problem. Now the issue is our brains are so complicated that sometimes we want something there and it’s like, Nope, nope, nope, I’m protecting you. You’re like, no, no, I’m cool. It’s like you’re, if you have a dog who’s always barking at people, you’re like, dude, that’s.

[00:28:18] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: That’s my friend. We’re cool. Think of the gag reflects that way, right? Like you cannot get this dog to stop getting mad at people and you’re okay with it. So the issue with the gag is that it is almost like a reverse swallow. The it you, your throat, instead of squeezing muscles downward, they squeeze things upward.

[00:28:34] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: The thing they have in common is that your soft palate. Um, the thing at the end of the, the dangly thing moves up so that things don’t go into your no nasal passage that happens in a swallow and aeg instead of your tongue going back and down, it goes forward and out. And you tend to increase saliva just like when you salivate.

[00:28:50] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Once food smells good so that they can lubricate the food going down, doesn’t get stuffed in your throat. The same thing happens. You get a lot of throat loop, which is closer to that thicker uber lube texture that’s viscous and. Quite, quite frankly, the most organic loop that you can make in your throat and neck, right, that also multiplies.

[00:29:07] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So that’s why you have a lot of saliva, right? It’s just sort of, they’re like, in case something’s gotta come up, we don’t wanna get stuck in our neck. So you start to flush, right? Your eyes flush. Everything starts flushing, and it can be good if it’s not a deterrent to the act. Some people can manage their gag and by distracting themselves, finding themselves that, Hey, brain.

[00:29:25] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Hey, central nervous system, calm down. We’re good. And some people, the thought of it makes it worse. These are the people who tend to have a little more anxiety around it, and so now you can’t stop thinking about it. If you’re afraid of heights, if you’re afraid of being in small spaces, the more you think about it, the strategy around that anxiety that it’s gonna happen often.

[00:29:40] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Potentiates. It’s the likelihood that you’re gonna then gag. So there are a couple things you can do. You know, one thing is maybe make the object that’s causing the gag more appetizing because your body has a unique capacity to know when it’s food that needs to be swallowed and know when it’s a foreign object that should not be swallowed, right?

[00:29:56] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: That’s why some people have issues with pill and have to disguise it in applesauce or [00:30:00] bread or something like that to get it down. Tricking the body to say, no, no, this is just bread.

[00:30:04] Jess O’Reilly: So if we cover, if we cover it in bread, I’ll be all over it. Like I, I love my carbs

[00:30:09] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: bread, but mine, mine, the yeast, mine, my mean.

[00:30:13] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: There’s a fine line between a baguette and, uh, so, uh, just be mindful there, but maybe the LD could have a flavor that is appetizing. So you’re distracting your brain a little bit. Some people distract their brain by doing something else with their body. Maybe they’re clenching their fists or squeezing their toes.

[00:30:30] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Now, if it doesn’t interfere with the pleasure you’re experiencing, then it’s possible that it can be enjoyable. Encouraging that loop, because the loop acts like a barrier between your mucosa, which is that slippery pink stuff that that lines from your lips all the way down to your anus in your butt. Um, that’s, that, that’s called mucosa.

[00:30:48] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: And so thicker lube is a barrier between whatever the object is and your mucosa. So you could maybe. Decrease the sensory experience. In fact, some men have said that if it’s too luby, even in the va, in the vagina, sometimes there’s, so what they say, they can’t feel anything like, wow, it’s so wet. So, and that’s because there’s a barrier between the two layers of skin, right?

[00:31:08] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Like a sandwich, if. Extra lube helps you. That’s another strategy. But remember, it’s tricking your brain. Some people will never be helped, and they need to be okay with the fact that that’s what their body does naturally. Okay. Some people have such a hypersensitive gag reflex that dentists. Are problematic, right?

[00:31:25] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: The thought of brushing their teeth back and brushing their tongue to scrape their tongue is a problem for them, and they just don’t do it. Some people’s bodies are not gonna let that happen, and that’s okay. You can find other ways to use your hands and other parts of your body to increase pleasure without.

[00:31:40] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Forcing, um, that particular act.

[00:31:43] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So,

[00:31:44] Jess O’Reilly: oh, first of all, thank you so much for that. I just learned so much and there’s a lot, so I’m gonna have to go back and re-listen to absorb all of that. I’m curious for people who are kind of in between, so they don’t have a super sensitive gag reflex. Um, they don’t have a discussed factor.

[00:31:57] Jess O’Reilly: They enjoy what they’re doing, whether they’re going down on a [00:32:00] vulva or going down on a penis. If they do want to learn to make their gag reflex less sensitive, can they do that through? Are there exercises you can do? Are there. You know, strategies that you recommend.

[00:32:11] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Yeah, so that’s, that’s the distracting the brain suggestion I was making.

[00:32:15] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: You could put, use lud that has a flavor that makes you think more about food and less about genital. You can also distract your brain by having your central nervous system by using, thinking about another part of your body intent. And that’s just really tricking yourself to not think so much about what you’re doing because you’re gonna potentiate the parts of your body that say, this is time to gag, it’s time to gag.

[00:32:36] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: It’s sort of like if you’re anticipating a loud noise, if you think too much about it, it’s gonna feel louder than it is, even though the death of Bell exactly the same, you are waiting for it so much. Right. So that’s, that’s. Those are strategies you can have. Now also, remember, some people don’t have a gag reflex at all, so there are people, about 30% of the population according to research suggest that gag reflex is either hypo or non-existent in certain people, and that is just natural for them.

[00:33:02] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Okay. Those are people who should be mindful as well. And the reason is you also have to remember that when you have something in your throat, you are not breathing. If you can choke on a, uh, a leche, right, that is just lodged there, obviously a penis is not gonna get lodged, but sometimes people take risks that might be excessive.

[00:33:22] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: For the sake of the act and bruising in those areas. We often see those, you know, a speech pathologist or dentist, dental hygienist. We look into the throat, we see the soft palate and the posterior phal wall that’s the back of your throat is bruised. It doesn’t mean that you’re inherently gonna have a problem, but do be mindful that those tissues serve a very particular function to tell your body how to do other functions that are essential for breathing, for swallowing, for gagging, and if they get too, if those.

[00:33:48] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Nerve endings are confused or damaged. It can impact things that you want to happen spontaneously. You know, just like any other part of your body, you don’t wanna abuse it because you’re like, Hey, I’m extra special. I can be a sword Swallower, [00:34:00] sword. Swallowers end up in, you know, in situations where they’re seeing a speech pathologist from time to time, like I think a swallow one.

[00:34:05] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Too many swords, ma’am.

[00:34:06] Jess O’Reilly: I hear it all the time. Should have used something less sharp. So I’ve heard anecdotally, and I know every, all the work you do is evidence-based, science-based, and you also recognize that common sense plays an important equation here. You speak all over the world, you lecture universities.

[00:34:22] Jess O’Reilly: One thing that I’ve heard from people, from multiple people is that they train, and this may not be science-based or evidence-based, but if people have experiences, I always wanna hear it. They’ll train themselves to relax the gag reflex by, for example, putting a toothbrush on their tongue and kind of just.

[00:34:36] Jess O’Reilly: Breathing deeply while they’re watching tv, and then the next night they put it a couple millimeters deeper so that they kind of get more used to it. Does this play into, first of all, does this make sense to you and does it play into sort of tricking the brain or training the brain in a different way?

[00:34:49] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So first of all, I want you to know that when you talk about evidence based, it’s okay to consider what the patient or client population is saying, cuz evidence-based practice is not just research, it’s also the clinical body of knowledge that a clinician has as well as the patient’s wants and wishes.

[00:35:04] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So if a patient is saying, This or client is saying, this is what’s working for me. I think it’s as evidence-based as the science, and here’s why. Science take the long, long, long time to get done. In the meantime, people are figuring out individual strategies that work for them, so I’m not gonna ever shame them for that.

[00:35:20] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Now, I will advise them if there’s something that’s potentially damaging, like people who actually try to swallow optical solutions. This can be topical anesthetics. Mm-hmm. So these are things that numb your tissues. So if you go to the dentist, they might know they’re gonna do a procedure and give you something for that short period of time.

[00:35:36] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: When people do this regularly, again, you risk numbing those places indefinitely. We just don’t know. So you wanna be mindful there, but when it comes to somebody saying, I want my body to understand that this stimulus is safe, that is a very smart way to do it. Because what you’re doing is you’re learning a breathing technique, and we know that one thing that people stop doing immediately when they’re anxious is breathing.

[00:35:55] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: And so if you were able to breathe through it, then in any circumstance, that is [00:36:00] a great thing to consider doing. And in fact, I would like to give, I don’t know who that said that, but that is an amazing strategy that if allowed, I’d like to include to my catalog of suggestions.

[00:36:08] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah. I had a client tell me about it and then I, years and years and years ago, and then I mentioned it to other clients and then they, you know, give feedback and say that it works.

[00:36:16] Jess O’Reilly: And as you speak, I’m thinking about the throat. Versus the anus, and I’m thinking about like, I’m seeing all of these different parallels, like we do the same thing with anal. If people are not accustomed to sliding something in there, we’ll have them start with something small and kind of breathe to see how the nervous system and the sphincter react to that over time.

[00:36:34] Jess O’Reilly: Whereas if they just start by trying to shove something down there, which is. Oftentimes the case for folks who wanna quote unquote deep throat. Same thing for folks who wanna have a certain type of penetrative anal. We go straight for the kind of a hundred yard dash instead of just starting with a couple of meters or centimeters for us Canadians at a time.

[00:36:52] Jess O’Reilly: And so I’m seeing some of those parallels there with, because when you say breathing, yeah, a hundred percent.

[00:36:56] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So here’s the thing, whenever there is. Anxiety, right? If there’s a loud noise, the first thing you do is bring your shoulders to your ears. You know why? You’re hardwired to protect your neck. You clench your butt, you clench your anus.

[00:37:07] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: These are things that you do to protect your orifices. You squeeze your eyes, and this is a loud noise. No one even touched you. Everything gets closed up in case we need that. So it’s no surprise that you need to practice the opposite when you’re telling your body it’s safe, but your body needs. Time. The other thing to remember is that some people actually enjoy that you can have a throat gasm because a vagus nerve through that kind of stimulation can lead to arousal.

[00:37:28] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Arousal is another way to distract the body from things that it should, would otherwise fit a foreign object if you were truly aroused. Your body often forgets about things. Pain gets. Mixed in there, and it can be a little bit pleasurable. It’s sort of like dark chocolate. There’s a bitter part, but there’s a sweet part for people and they really love the combination of tape.

[00:37:47] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Your body often likes a little bit of pain with a little bit of, um, satisfaction together and pleasure. And so if you are truly aroused in between your ears, so the arousal is between your ears before, between your legs, right? If you were truly aroused [00:38:00] by. A lot of things, your body can relax and just allow these moments to happen, but if you’re not yet around, then it feels like it is working hard to enjoy the moment.

[00:38:09] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So again, the nervous system is key here.

[00:38:12] Brandon Ware: Might I add that for those of us who are on the receiving end, Of these activities, not a bad idea to try it yourself first. Meaning stick that toothbrush down your throat so that you know not to jam anything in there because the other person, you know, just under, it’s like you said about the anus, it’s like stick a finger in your own butt before you start doing it to somebody else so that you know exactly what it feels like so you’re not. Thrust in a way.

[00:38:34] Jess O’Reilly: Yeah. I mean, especially in the hetero sense, I find that there is this, you know, tendency to just wanna kind of put it in there and be the giver or be the penetrator. And I do think it’s so important. You know, I talk about my golden rule of anal. If you wanna put something in someone else’s butt, I think it’s really important that you put something in your own butt first.

[00:38:49] Jess O’Reilly: It doesn’t have to be the same thing, it doesn’t have to be the exact same size, but I think that getting to know your own body is, there’s. There’s so much value, so much value in that

[00:38:57] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: I suggest actually, well, two things. One is a quick safety thing, which is if you’re gonna try these things, I know it goes without saying, but it also doesn’t cause ER doc, tell me this.

[00:39:05] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Don’t put anything down there that can separate from itself. Don’t do it with a banana down your throat, because if it breaks off in your throat, you don’t have any teeth or jaw there to chew it up. They may get stuck. And same thing with anal thing. Don’t put things in there that can be left in there.

[00:39:16] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Okay? So that’s one. But when you say golden rule, I might suggest that we advance. That’s a platinum rule. Golden rule is due unto others as you would have them do unto you. That assumes that you guys know what the other wants. What if you want something different? Golden rule means I put myself in and say, I would want that.

[00:39:31] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Platinum rule says do unto others as they would have you do unto them. It requires you to not make it about you per se, but say even if I could take it up the app, you still don’t want it because you can go through that process and say, I’m fine, and they could still go, but my body doesn’t want it. So the Platinum Rule is due unto others as they have you do unto them, and then you’re always thinking about the other person.

[00:39:52] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Golden Rule is the first step, but it works well when we both want exactly the same things. Like I say, I don’t want somebody to walk up to me and stab me in the eye, so Golden [00:40:00] Rule works for that activity, but. When we’re talking about things where there can be variation and there’s grace based, platinum rule works better.

[00:40:07] Jess O’Reilly: I love that.

[00:40:07] Jess O’Reilly: Absolutely. Yeah. And all of our bodies are just so different. And not only that, and I’m sure you see this in clients or patients for you, what works for me today may not work tomorrow. And I’m sure that’s true for people who have experienced medical trauma as well, that what might feel good on one day feels.

[00:40:22] Jess O’Reilly: Painful in another day, or distressful in another day, and it’s not always kind of this ascending experience. Oftentimes I think we fall into this idea that, well, I was able to do level one, so I move on to level two. Move on to level three. But, uh, with all things with emotional experience, with physical experience, with sexual, with relational, it’s a bunch of waves kind of moving across a, a web or an ocean.

[00:40:42] Jess O’Reilly: This is, this isn’t just such valuable information. I, I know we have to let you go. We went over I one more. Quick question about textures. Um, some people will complain about the texture of different bodily fluids and that that will cause them to gag. Are textures a common source of activating that gag reflex?

[00:41:02] Jess O’Reilly: Is there anything folks can do about it? I appreciate that you said you don’t have to do everything. You kind of figure out what works for your body, but if there’s someone who wishes, for example, that they could swallow, Somebody else’s ejaculate, but they find that the texture is off-putting. Obviously they can spit, obviously they can, you know, take a drink with it.

[00:41:19] Jess O’Reilly: But what about from the physiological or brain perspective?

[00:41:21] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: A hundred percent. There are people who have. Serious texture, adverse, uh, experiences. Kids have that and sometimes kids just don’t quote, grow out of it. Also, remember that some of us have more pae on our tongues. Some of us are super tasters.

[00:41:35] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Super tasters are people who have a genetic difference in that they taste things more vividly, if you will, and they can appreciate textures more. Some studies suggest they tend to be chefs, they tend to be involved in things that are, uh, more related to taste and sensation, so they might be getting more information.

[00:41:52] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: And we don’t all process sensory information exactly the same way. In the same way that you might be more sensitive to light and somebody else is like, I don’t need sunglasses, [00:42:00] I’m fine. Some people are more sensitive to every texture. Right? And as a result, it’s not just, you can never separate the texture from which is gonna be mouthfeel from the smell and the flavor.

[00:42:10] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Right, that same texture, if it was like grape jelly on, on bread or something like that, you’re like, mm, yummy. Because it’s the, there’s such a pleasing experience. The jelly is excused, but when the smell and the taste are problematic, it might not even matter what the texture is. It could be se water, and they’d be like, yikes, this is gross.

[00:42:28] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: So it, and maybe the question is, And this is your area of expertise perhaps or certainly not mine. Taste and texture of semen varies. Right? And so what is it about perhaps someone’s diet or physiology that changes that? I don’t know. But to the extent that taste and and smell can be confused again, we’re confusing the central nervous system.

[00:42:47] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: It’s probably better. The other thing to consider is just bypass the oral cavity altogether. If you’re somebody take a jack lit in your throat, then your reflexive swallow response will pick up and swallow that relatively safely. It’s only about. Five ccs or less general, the average amount of semen. So it’s about a teaspoon.

[00:43:03] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: It’s the maximum amount that we use. In my research studies at Hopkins, I would actually in rapidly eject a bolus, which is like a, a amount of, uh, whatever you’re putting in someone’s throat directly into somebody’s throat to demonstrate that the, you don’t need the oral cavity. Tell the brain, Hey, it’s time to swallow.

[00:43:19] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: They will swallow. Reflexively so we know people can do it. So you could just bypass it all together. Then you don’t have to taste it cuz there are only taste bud at the very tip of your epiglottis. But not enough, you don’t have any texture experiences down there as much. Your, your oral cavities is really, really prime protector.

[00:43:34] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: It’s, its job to bake. This food is now swallowable. You will not die. That’s the oral cavity’s job. So once it. Sends it to the throat, it now goes, Hey, too late. Gravity’s on the way. It better be swallowable. So if you just put it, put it straight in the throat, you’re fine.

[00:43:47] Jess O’Reilly: Kind of like a dog. You know when you give them the medicine, you put it kind of in the back of their throat. Easier with a small dog than with a big dog. That’s right. But. This. This is really excellent information. I think you’ve offered so many different perspectives here in terms of [00:44:00] communication, in terms of the way the brain functions, in terms of practicality, in terms of sexuality and how we can take our brains elsewhere in terms of how we need to be aroused.

[00:44:09] Jess O’Reilly: I think it’s practical advice. Obviously, you know, you have a ton of experience with this. We’re gonna leave your links for everybody in the show notes, but is there anything exciting you’d like them to check out or follow along with in terms of your work right now?

[00:44:21] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Yeah, absolutely. So if you go to gulp, you’ll see that Reba and I have a show.

[00:44:29] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Gulp stands for gaining understanding about lovemaking and physiology, though obviously people thinking gulp. Oh, swallow ologist, that’s what you do. And yes, that’s incorporated, but I’m a swallow Ologist. Reba’s a psychologist, and together we have a show where we really tackle a lot of these things and it’s quite entertaining.

[00:44:43] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: We have a YouTube page. So I think that that’s probably a great pace to start and it’s also on Instagram that you could find us as well.

[00:44:50] Jess O’Reilly: Awesome. Thank you so much for your time. So appreciate it.

[00:44:52] Dr. Ianessa Humbert: Thank you guys for having me. This has been a great discussion.

[00:44:56] Jess O’Reilly: And thank you for listening. Quick reminder to go check out the womanizer

[00:45:03] Jess O’Reilly: Again, the code to save on that product and any other product you wanna play with. If you’re looking for something that tickles, something, that vibes something, that plugs up, something that’s lazy, something that’s leather code is Doctor Jess 15. And as always, it’s just Dr. For Doctor. All right, thanks babe.

[00:45:20] Brandon Ware: Thank you.

[00:45:21] Jess O’Reilly: All right, folks, have a great one. Wherever you’re at.

[00:45:23] Jess O’Reilly: You’re listening to The Sex with Dr. Jess podcast. Improve your sex life, improve your life.