Like Sex with Dr. Jess on FacebookFollow Sex with Dr. Jess on InstagramFollow Sex with Dr. Jess on TwitterSubscribe to Sex with Dr. Jess's channel on YouTubeSubscribe to Sex with Dr. Jess's RSS feed
Sex with Dr. Jess


May 29, 2020

Modern Whore: One Sex Worker’s Story & Insights

Podcast: Play in new window | Download

Andrea Werhun, author of Modern Whore, joins Jess and Brandon to share her personal story as a sex worker, performer and author. She discusses her beautiful journey into sex work and how her work has shifted during physical distancing and isolation. They also discuss:
  • What makes an escort enjoy the experience with a client
  • How sex workers and their clients build trust and connection in their relationships
  • Andrea’s Hire-A-Muse packages
  • The coming out process and Andrea’s story of sharing her truth with her Mom & Dad
  • How to be an ally to sex workers and how to be sex worker-positive
  • Jess’ experience with sex workers at her first SAR
  • Sex work as a healing profession
  • The benefits of sex work
  • Insights from sex work that can benefit all daters
  • Stripping vs. Escorting and the whorearchy 
  • The importance of labour rights for sex workers

Follow Andrea on Instagram & Twitter. Follow Modern Whore on Twitter & Facebook.

This podcast has been sponsored by Let’sGetChecked. Use code DRJESS to save at checkout!

Drive Her Wild With Pleasure Banner




If you’ve got questions or topic suggestions for the podcast, submit them here. As well, you can now record your messages for us! Please record your message/question in a quiet room and use your phone’s headphones with a built-in mic if possible.

And be sure to subscribe on Apple PodcastsSpotifyPodbeanGoogle Podcasts, Amazon MusicStitcher!

Rough Transcript:

This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health or other professional advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.

Modern Whore: One Sex Workers Story & Insights

00:00:05 – 00:05:02

You’re listening to the sacs with Dr Jess podcast sacks and relationship advice you can use tonight Welcome to the sex with Dr. Just podcast I’m your co host Brandon. Wear here with my lovely other half Dr Jess. How’s it going good? Good happy to be back chatting with you. I I know you you say you always feel nervous when we begin these podcast but feel way more relaxed after and I think we could both use that right now. Yeah I mean these are source of therapy for me. I hope you don’t mind. I’m not paying you therapy session here. I don’t think I’m the one therapist using you. Well it’s it’s It’s it’s self therapy then self therapy had just kind of talking about what’s going on. Yeah it feels good to get it off. Your chest feels good. I mean especially for somebody who doesn’t have a lot of relationships with people where I can open up the way that I do here with thousands and thousands of listening in today. I’m excited because we’re going to be speaking with the author of modern. Hor and we need more sex workers on this podcast because if we’re talking sex education if we’re talking about relationships this is a big part of sexuality and often ignored often kind of treated as a footnote and. I think that many of us live in this world of an kind of a divide of US versus them right You know maybe we have interactions with sex workers in their professional capacity Maybe we have friends who are sex workers and we don’t even realize it and they’re new. There are many sex workers in my field who are educators and who are also therapist and hearing the stories of how stigma adversely affects their life their work. Their friendships is heartbreaking. But on the flip side. I think we’re going to be having a conversation about the positivity about all of the wonderful outcomes of sex work and you know I I have always in my adult. Life regarded sex work. As and of course Wanted to support sex workers but I had a really enlightening moment when I did my very first SAR so SAR stands for a couple of things. But it back then. The course I took was called sexual attitude reassessment and in Sr you learn about old types of sex. You’re exposed to a range of sexual materials. And part of the part of the purpose is education and part of it is simply exposure to expose you to a range of sexual possibilities so that when it comes time in therapy or an education to address the needs of your clients. Y- they’re not doing the teaching for you and they did have sex worker panel all in this artists. I mean I’m trying to think this probably was two thousand seven or something like that and it really helped open my perspective and see sex workers as really helping healing professions. Because this this woman who spoke with us talked about the fact that she had clients who had never been touched since they childlike. She talked about this one. Client who had skin issue and you know felt he couldn’t date and didn’t know how to access physical touch and relationships and she was part of his journey back to human physical affection remember. I’m not telling it with the power and passion with which she did but I remember it being very moving and opening my eyes to say oh sex works not just work it’s it. Is You know part of healing and part of therapy and I think people in academia those of us. You know working in so the so-called helping professions like therapists and counselors. We tend to think that. We’ve got a lockdown and treat our workers though like there’s something we know that other people don’t but I. I’m not saying that there isn’t great value in seeing a therapist or a counselor but I think there is a massive God Complex that needs to be relinquished and see that. There are so many different ways to heal because cultures how different cultures have been healing in different ways for thousands and thousands of years whether it’s through ritual or song or dance or connection with nature or community connection. There’s not just one way to heal and I see sex workers as part of that not just healing journey for some people. It is more about pleasure for some people. It’s about a relationship. You know the girlfriend experience but I’m I’m really excited to have our guest joining us today before we dive in. I want to introduce a new sponsor for the podcast this month. Which is exciting for US and I really am excited about the services being offered by. Let’s get checked. They are offering online via distance. Sti testing so you order online.

00:05:02 – 00:10:15

They deliver you the kit. You collect your sample and you return it using prepaid shipping label and then you can review your results online within two days confidential of course and it’s secure online account so it’s let’s get checked dot com. And if you can please if you order while you’ll get a discount Use Code Doctor Jess D. R. J. E. S. S. So that they know that folks from our podcast or listening if you’re overdue for a test if you’re supposed to get tested around this time of year because we should be tested regularly and fifty one percent of people don’t get tested because they’re afraid to bring up sex or S T is with their healthcare provider. Which is really terrifying so consider. Let’s get checked to you can either go to. Let’s get checked dot com and use code Doctor Jess or you can go to my unique. You are L. which is try. L. D. C. dot com slash doctor. I know that’s a bit more complicated. So if you just use Dr just at checkout you’ll get a discount and I will get credit for them knowing that you’re listening so much much appreciated. Let’s get checked com on the line with us. Today is writer performer. And sex worker Andrea Wear Hon. The author and forest behind the sold out sex work MEMOIR MODERN. Hor as well as the short film adaptation of the same name. Thank you so much for being here. Oh it’s an absolute pleasure. Dr Jess You can just call me. Just only Brandon has to call me Dr. Just it’s A. It’s a bedroom thanks. How’re you doing? I imagine your work has changed rather dramatically with the government restrictions on in-person socializing. Yes so I’m no longer stripping. There’s no in person work going on for me anymore but I have Somewhat surprisingly adapted to this new digital world where in where I offer a higher amuse service I was very happy to discover the acronym for Higher. Amuse is ham him. It’s me and it started off his reading to clients. I had a client who reached out and was was interested in me reading a book to him and then it kind of branched out from there and now I offer sort of a variety of services that are mostly quite innocent. Of course I am still. I’m still dabbling a little bit in in selling nude selling videos. But I’ve been able to keep quite afloat during the pandemic which to me is sort of a testament to the ingenuity of sex workers to find a way to sell our wears because our body is our labor. So Yeah Yeah I’ve been I’ve been able to work. It’s a massive change but I’m actually pretty excited about what is to come. Do you think you’ll continue with this ham work? I call it that when When things do return to some degree of normalcy and you can get back to work. I’m I’m pretty new to it. But I’m making comparable money and there’s certainly a lot less risk. I know that the club that I work for is already talking about opening in the next couple of weeks. Switches are ridiculous. I really don’t see how that’s possible but I certainly feel a lot safer doing what I’m doing And it’s stimulating in a different way and I think I probably will continue being ham after the pandemic tell me. What are you doing as amused so I I love the idea of being read to? I love when Brandon reads to me. Should I should add some context here as soon as I start to read to jess because she asked me to read sometimes at night. She’s asleep within thirty seconds. I this is just immediately like knockout. But if you were to stop reading I’d wake up China’s so like I just have to continually ours our our get through books. I’m sure I’m sure okay. So Andrew People hire you to read. What else. How else do you function as a as an online news? This is fascinating to me. Oh my God it’s so it’s interesting I like. I said it’s it’s very much in development Ab. I have a client that asked me yesterday whether we could collaborate on this like a photo comic so we would develop a story together and then. I guess I would take pictures of myself and then we he would add like word bubbles. We would create a story that way I know and I read that I was like. Oh my God this is exactly what I’m going for MS sexually looking for creative collaborators during the pandemic and charging one hundred dollars an hour for that service Which I think is pretty fair and accessible and so yeah stuff like that like making art together is so interesting.

00:10:15 – 00:15:01

I mean I have another client besides like reading novels and reading him my own book. So it’s sort of like you know alive audiobook where you get to discuss the story with the author after the the story finished which is really cool and yeah it’s like I have another client. Who paid me to write him emails? I mean it’s a dream. Come true to be honest. Yes and so no risk especially when people are really concerned about risk right. Now I love it. Now you have experienced tripping have experienced escorting. I want to know what you what you love about your work. I mean I my favorite part of sex work and this is sort of how it it. It bleeds into what I’m doing with my ham. Services is the connection That can be made with a client on an intellectual level and on several different levels via conversation. Finding the things that we have in common like. I read about in in modern horror. How it didn’t really take much for me to WANNA have sex with my clients. If we had one thing in common we already got a connection and if I could make them laugh great. I’m already lived up and ready to go you know. It doesn’t take much for me to get excited about exploring sexuality what someone especially in the context of sex work which is so The boundaries are clear. So I really. I really enjoy developing regular relationships with my clientele. It’s what I did as an escort what I did as stripper It was my specialty to essentially build relationships with my clients and have them coming back week after week. With with the sexual service sort of as a you know the desert at the end of a meal like it wasn’t the whole thing was the only reason why they were coming in to see me but obviously of course it’s part of what I offer but the connection I think is is what creates like years long relationships with my clientele. So what what can we learn from you? What can what are? What are people doing wrong? What can we do better to cultivate these connections? Because you know you hear about people dating and both you and US you us. We’re located in Toronto where people are always complaining about the dating scene. So what can people do to create that connection to get excited instead of you know coming home and complaining about another bad date? Oh my gosh I haven’t dated in so long so I’m not even sure and I think you know the beauty of sex work gazette. It’s the like I said before. The context is so clear. You know you’re with someone for an hour you know exactly what your trading essentially as work. I always get you know what I want up front. Which is the one and then we get to. You know what we’re both therefore which is you know sexual pleasure. As far as communication is concerned. I mean you have to. I think it’s important to be on the same page you know. Have your expectations are laid out? Pretty early on be open minded. Have Fun at but also for me. An important aspect of my work is knowing how no knowing when someone is a waste of time knowing I mean timewasters is. That’s a big thing in sex work is is not wasting your time with people that are really just taking your time without any intention of compensating and I think the same can be said in a dating in a non sex context. I think it’s important to know upfront whether you’re on the same page whether you want the same things and if you don’t want the same things then getting out of dodge as soon as possible. How do you so I’m wondering about the relationship? Say you’ve cultivated. Do you find that you feel the filled having these different relationships You know work in. Blurring the lines of some taking satisfaction out of your work and then also having these relationships. Do you know what I mean by that like I’m clean. I’m just trying to think so. People often are looking for a relationship with one partner. Yeah and from that one partner. They derive satisfaction whereas it seems to me like you’re deriving satisfaction from the from from your work from your clients like is that fulfilling.

00:15:01 – 00:20:02

You feel like you have what you would other. People are striving to have in a relationship through your work. That’s really interesting. I mean I identify as poly-amorous which is probably why sex work is so Ideal for me. I find it quite natural to Love multiple people and I can say there are clients that I do love Clients that have been in my life now for many years and supported my endeavors. Who are great patrons of my art? And those people you know Spurs blurring. The lines is concerned. You know yeah. Some of those clients end up becoming part of my real life for my my my life outside of of working out so they can call me by my real name instead of my work name or some of them have been like nowhere. I live in during the pandemic of dropping by you know of course with a little offering an envelope to be put. Because that’s you know that’s the deal but yeah I mean. These are fairy significant relationships that I have With some of my clients and like I said the the building of a regular client requires It can’t just be about the money and it is about building relationship. I love that I love that and I imagine I am curious as to that transition from something that is a little bit more transactional so you talk about knowing what you want. They know what they want. And I wish people would bring that into dating right as opposed to playing games as opposed to saying you want one thing and another We all the time with people saying oh I just I just WANNA be friends. I can’t get your number to be friends well really because I don’t see you asking Brandon for his number. Why WOULD YOU WANNA BE? I’m not that great of a friend. Let me tell you. So the the clarity with which you’re approaching relationships make sense. And then when they transitioned to being a part of your life as well as a as a client is that a very natural transition. Is it something you have to talk about? I mean it’s not it’s like very few crossed the Rubicon into my personal life like I have very few clients that cannot only interact with me can contract my friends but I do have clients like that. I have a client that had a party and I invited my mom to the party. Like these things are possible but yeah I mean A. It’s very few people get to go deeper into my personal life but most clients don’t actually want to cross that line. There’s they have their own reasons for seeing sex workers and it’s not necessarily to become my friend like you know to get really like deep into my life they get a service from me and It’s it’s within the confines of the hour or whatever agreement we have and it doesn’t go outside of that and The vast majority of clientele respect that I love that and so I wanted to talk about your memoir modern horror and learn more about your journey because you you say that you are part in part inspired by a visit to a strip club and I also read that you were inspired by as a Barista and wondering if what you were really selling with sex. When there’s a little bit of cleavage is that is that accurate that is one hundred percent accurate I want to read a quick line from from your memoir so you talk about being at the Strip Strip club and you describe it to me. It seemed like an inverted church. The stripper temperature onstage delivering. Her sexy wordless sermon. The wrapped congregation nursed. They’re overpriced bottles of beer. The devout throwing their type things on stage the most pious of worshippers looking to confess their sins in private for twenty dollars a song. I felt like I’d experienced a conversion yet. So what brought you the Strip club? How did you leave? What were you thinking? And what was your journey into this into this field? So I was I was a university student. I was not one or was twenty years old so I’ve never been to a strip club before I’d heard all sorts of things had classmates who were talking about having gone to various strip clubs and how the women were all dead eye dancers and they all look like they hated their lives and they wanted to die and yet they were present for entertainment. It’s very strange but I. I had my own expectations of what a strip club would be like.

00:20:02 – 00:25:05

And one evening I was hanging out with a friend in Riverdale Park and we were drinking smoking a joint we relaxing and we started talking about strip labs and He he asked. If I’d ever been I said no and he said we’ll Chili’s is right down the street. You WanNa go around last call so I said what the Hell let’s go so we went and what I witnessed was what I felt to be like. You said like like an inverted church like Here is a beautiful naked dancing woman on a stage in front of a rapt audience sipping their beer And once she gets off stage has the opportunity to have sort of a confessional type experience in the form of a lap. Dance for the tithing of twenty dollars a song. I grew up in a sort of the Catholic tradition. I went to Catholic schools. My mom is a practicing Catholic so I can’t help sometimes to to apply. A religious lends to the things that I see but to me being in that environment in an environment that had been so shamed and so stigmatized considered to dark and various in our culture. I couldn’t help it as as sort of a dark church and what was being worshipped was the feminine was Feminine Sexuality what could be so harmful a beautiful naked woman dancing on a stage. I was so drawn to it and something inside of me was like this is where you have to be and so. I thought at first I would become a waitress. I didn’t immediately identify with the woman on stage. I think I was too scared of that possibility. Because I’d never ever considered expert so I I started looking up jobs as a waitress clubs and then doing where research about what what it would be like to be a stripper in Toronto and I found some pretty excellent resources and then I started going to strip clubs a lot. I somehow met people that were that wanted to go to strip clubs and so the more. I went the closer got to that realization that I didn’t want to be near the dancers are to become a dancer of want to be that woman onstage Showing her body dancing to music Getting the crowd all riled up that to me sounded very interesting and very exciting. So yeah that from there. I you know the licenses expensive that became a barrier. But I I started going to classes pole dance classes. I bought some shoes. I started like practicing. I really didn’t want to be a Dork. If I did go. And then I started telling people that I wanted to become a stripper and then people started coming out of the woodwork. To say the same thing which was that I should consider escorting instead because it was a more private a safer and more lucrative form of sex work and I I. I was quite taken aback. I didn’t think that that was what I wanted to do. I thought I want the stage. I don’t WanNa do this privately. I WANNA be out there but eventually having done some research I decided you know what okay I will try the escorting route. I and I found an agency a call them got an interview scare quotes interview with them. Got The job and started that week. What is the interview air quotes? The interview was a meeting the to agency owners in their SUV and being told how it works. okay and I mean I curious about you know you tell it in such a beautiful way but also kind of adorable. This is what I wanted to do and this is why I wanted to do it. But then we have the societal shame Of Sex work. And so you know. How did you reconcile that individually? Did that affect your relationships. Your friendships your family’s reaction do. Have you always had support around you? Yeah it’s a good question I mean I I hate them so bad it hiding. I’m so bad at lying I am. I’m always compelled to be myself in onison in every situation which you know Is Not always the right thing to do? Sometimes you need to keep your cards close Sometimes you know not every single person that you meet needs to know your whore. This is something I’ve learned over the but I in the beginning I told my close friends and my close friends were very supportive.

00:25:05 – 00:30:07

And then within six months I had to tell my parents. It could not lie to them any longer. It was becoming so incredibly painful to hide this new job that I had that gave me so much joy and so much pride and I was making money like I had never made money before it because like you said I. My experience was generally in the service industry working at cafes or working at restaurants making tips and you know wearing a low cut tops than Jiggling. My Bubis very little extra cash. So it wasn’t Something that I could just bring up with my parents when I did. People are surprised by this but it was actually my dad. Who was quite supportive or at least you know didn’t react in a negative way. He was like okay. Well you’ve got a good head on your shoulders I trust you know what you’re doing and if anyone hurts you I will beat the living shit out of them. Think that’s an excellent dad response. And then when I told my mom she was. She was entirely devastated. It really really hurt. Her was as if like I. I told her an IT looked like you know she was on the couch and I had shot her and she was just slumped and like slides off the couch. She dead. It was really scary and sad and deeply emotional and for me. I felt it was important to tell her. Because I had this like fire in my my body that was burning me alive and it was the shame that I it just desperately wanted to get rid of it and so when I told her that she’s like well you just burned me alive and so I learned in that moment that while my own desire to be upfront to tell the truth and to be honest about what I was doing. It’s actually coming out. You have to be careful with that information. It has to be methodical. It’s it’s it’s one of those things where it can well. It certainly will change your life to come out as a sex worker but it can also destroy relationships. You know so thankfully with my mom even though she was deeply hurt and had all sorts of insecurities about the way that she had raised me and felt that she had failed apparent because at become a sex worker and I had to eventually try and convince her dots. It was in fact because of her excellent parenting that she taught me to be myself and she had taught me to go for what I want and to fight for the rights of marginalized people. I mean she had been like a you know the president of her labor union at one time and so had my dad and and here I am a sex worker You know this entire workforce of people that desperately need labor rights so site mom. I’m I’m actually kind of following in your footsteps here And that’s that’s a hard lesson when you know the last thing. Any mother wants to hear that. Your daughter’s a whore but eventually over time through like just constant conversation She did come around and now she’s like you know one of my greatest champions so incredibly lucky to have my mom on my side that that coming out process sounds so challenging. I’m curious What we can do to be more supportive. You know. Maybe you have a friend. Who’s a sex worker and they haven’t told you yet maybe there’s somebody who work with. Who Moonlights as a sex worker and how is ashamed to tell? You are afraid to tell you. What can people do to make that coming out? Process easier for sex workers to to indicate that we we are allies. And and you want to be a part of your life more fully not that you because so many sex workers can live parts of their life with friends and parts of their lives with lives with family but hide this piece. That you said was so difficult to hide. It’s an excellent question. I think When you’re sex worker in here in the closet I feel like you know not not every expert wants to come out but if a sex worker is curious about coming out in curious about testing the waters. She’s going to be paying attention to the way people talk about sex work. She’s going to be highly attuned to whether the person she’s talking to the friend. The potential ally is someone who may be leans towards slut shaming people. You know whether someone is a relatively sex positive reviews whether they are judgmental whether they are open minded.

00:30:07 – 00:35:04

I mean these are things that make a person feel more comfortable As far as disclosing is concerned so as an ally like if you don’t have to like make a facebook post and say if any of my friends are sex workers. Feel free to me. Because I think you’re just great like you don’t have to do that but I think as far as a friend is concerned you know if you’ve already demonstrated that you you are trustworthy on that you can hold space for vulnerability in your friendship and that you will stand by a friend even if you don’t sex work is the right path for them. I think that that that makes you a good person to come out to potentially just be a good person and someone will probably come out now. It’s so interesting I find that you know in my travels in men in my work. I talked to so many people on the airplane or in the airport. And you know it’s just casual conversation but once we start talking. I can’t tell you how many people tell me that. They’re traveling for sex work and I think they it’s just so interesting and many of them sitting at the front of the plane to I mean. That’s that’s where to sit if you can and if you’re you know if you’re working towards it affords it for you but yeah. I think that You know the they’ll begin by saying oh I’m going to work. I think about for example traveling in Canada to the West To the oil areas. They’ll say work on. I work on site and then as we get talking and they ask what I do. You know within five ten minutes. They’re talking but actually I go out there and I- I escort or you know I’m doing Being or whatever it is they’re doing and I think it’s so important to his conversations. I really appreciate your. You’re saying that the way we talk like the little microaggressions around slut shaming the jokes language. I’m I’m sure that’s really tough on folks and and you talk about fighting for marginalized populations including sex workers who need worker rights. I understand you do work. With Maggie’s which is the Toronto Sex Workers Action Project? Can you tell us a little bit about that? Yes I am. I’m employed as peer outreach. Worker with Maggie’s I’ve worked with them for the last two years. They are the oldest the longest running sex work organization in Canada. A they’re an excellent organization caters specifically to sex workers all across the spectrum or one may say the hierarchy the horror icke as we say circles so that that includes people who have St base experience And then all the way to the top of a high class escort sitting at the front of the plane you know we also serve as that So yeah there’s there’s a ton of programming that we do. And I’ve been very impressed with how they’ve transitioned to online outreach. As a result of the pack they’ve done some excellent work. I was able to lead a mask. Handmade mask making workshop over zoom for macy’s recently which is a lot of fun a stitch and bitch so we could just tough out so yeah. Makings doesn’t credible work. In a big part of what I was doing. Pre Pandemic Was outreach on The strolls the strolls that are still operating in the city People work at night So where I usually did. Outreach was on the train. Stroll sort of in the east end of Not Quite eastern but around Allen Gardens in Toronto and and going out and checking in on everyone who’s working and asking if they’re good and what they need and if they need any condoms they need any harm reduction supplies. We got him That that’s deeply fulfilling work And for me as a sex worker who you know I’m a stripper like and I work down the street from the stroll. I I love being able to work on the street and see the familiar faces that are out there working and listen to their conversations. Because I’ll tell you they’re the exact same conversations that are happening at the club you know. Sex workers are sex workers. No matter where you are position to and I think there’s a lot of Misconceptions and stereotypes about what it means to be a ST base expert and I will tell you as someone I’m not I’ve never done it but I have seen it and I’ve talked to the people who work out there. It works for them. It’s a it’s an accessible form of sex work That works for them so All the power to them And all my love to them. I really really love everyone that I’ve been able to meet through outreach. So Yeah it’s I love as to death and I’m I’m so proud of the work that we’ve done and the work that we continue to do.

00:35:05 – 00:40:30

I appreciate that you bring up the Hor- arche as well. So this notion that there are some sexpert jobs that are more highly regarded or and others that are more stigmatized and I’m sure the struggles can be different because of stigma. I actually remember I. High School Teacher At at an alternative school in Toronto and you are bringing up our stumping grounds. So Gylys is Julie’s is now gone. It’s now the broadview hotel but it is at our corner we live really one block from there We were in Riverdale Park yesterday. And the what did you call it where they work on the street. The a stroll I I lived on Bleaker Street so Used to always see the workers on the corner and in fact. I don’t know if this is work. You do with Maggie’s but once in a while I would see the cops harassing them yet and I don’t know if that if that situation has improved or if there are supports that can be be offered but Yeah I I think it’s an important point that We tend to even within a stigmatized or marginalized population further stigmatize some versus others. And and you’re all doing such important work in one thing. When I was reading an excerpt from your book you were talking about An older man named Albert and you talk about caressing his sagging skin with curiosity. Enjoy an feeling that even though he was older the man was so alive with energy and youthful energy. And kind of enjoying enjoying your time and you call it your love making with him. And I’m I’m so curious. What determines whether or not you really enjoy an experience because I think people make a lot of assumptions like if someone looks a certain way or if someone speaks to a certain way but there’s gotta be more to it than that like all sexual experiences of course in a sanctuary context The greatest determination of whether I’m going to enjoy myself as whether that person has provided the money upfront booker. Haggling me or making it difficult for me or you know you know trying to blur the lines and saying they don’t owe me that like you know they wanna be more Blah Blah you know. Forget it money up front I or as we say cash on the Dash. First and foremost you know the rest is so okay is clean. Is he like if he stinks? On behalf of a bad time attractiveness levels objectively speaking good-looking is not good looking. Doesn’t matter if you’re being paid for it part of what your expertise is is having a sexual Interaction with someone that is not physically attractive necessarily. But that doesn’t stop you if you’ve been paid and he’s smells fine. He’s kind and he’s generous and he’s not pushing your boundaries at all and he’s president and you know he’s respectful like those the six go such a long way and those things don’t cost money you know it doesn’t cost money to be respectful to a sex worker So you don’t waste time to try and get more time out of a sex worker. Were highly attuned to what our boundaries are. And what we’re providing and what we’re getting in return so when somebody starts to push on that were very aware what they’re doing and we always have to make a choice in the moment whether it’s worth it for us to have our boundaries pushed because sometimes you know if a man’s if Klein is a high spender one might be a little bit more lenient as far as the boundaries are concerned right But if he’s not spending money he’s got very little leeway not regard before we let you go because I have so many questions for you fight We have to let you can you? Can you tell us what we all can do differently or what we get wrong. What do you want people to know about sex work and take away from your book and Your Your Film Project Modern Whore? I mean the number one thing I would love for people to take away from. The modern horror. Endeavor is that sex workers are human beings deserve equal rights At they deserve to be respected heard. First and foremost I think we need to examine why the laws surrounding sex work Seem to always exclude the sex workers themselves. I think we need to hear from sex workers and that includes people who enjoy their job. I think we’re very familiar with the same old stories of victimhood and tragedy and Substance Abuse and poverty and You know that’s one hundred percent part of of the sex work puzzle and certainly Represents some people’s experience but we really miss out on the bigger picture of what it is that sex workers offer and the value of what we offer And I think through modern horror I we consider of see how absolutely ridiculous and draconian these laws are and how sexual shame has still quad.

00:40:30 – 00:45:00

Its way into our laws and make the law to make our lives a lot. Less safe and You know I hope that people can engage in the working and understand that decriminalization of sex work is the only way forward for sex worker rights. Thank you yeah and so thank you for sharing your voice. I always think about sex work because I often get asked about it. You know because I’m always doing press ops on anything related to Saxon I. I’m reminded of nothing with nothing about us without us. So I’m not the voice and I really appreciate Your Voice. Folks can learn more at modern horror DOT COM and the the book is sold out. But you’ll be releasing a a new version soon and I understand the Canadian. Premiere OF MODERN HORROR IS SLATED FOR TORONTO’S HOT. Docs Film Festival. I’m not sure if that’s still on but people can can check that out and follow along on instagram. You’re adorable post Weiner Woman W. E. Weiner woman at really appreciate your time today Andrea so much so it’s been a pleasure. I find this a an important and interesting discussion and taken a lot out of it. You know the reminder that if we were more straightforward about what we were looking for in a relationship and not that it’s always transactional but there is always an exchange. Whether it’s financial or relational or practical or sexual and there are so many games in dating. You know even even when I talked to some folks in the field who are dating experts or dating coaches. Some of them are. I think excellent and some of them are still stuck in in games. Don’t them until x? Number of days have or you know. Act this way because men are into this and women are into that and if we could just be more straightforward using sex work in part as a model I find that really I think a useful useful lens and I do think these conversations also are reminder of how we all need to continue to chip away at our own biases because we are. I think all of us raised with a bias against sex work and even those of us who believe that sex work is work and support sex workers and by the way we all most of us have hired a sex worker in some way even just watching porn if you consume porn and hopefully people are purchasing their porn. Then this is this is sex work and we need to be more more mindful of it and I I interviewed jet-setting Jazzmen the other day She is A counselor a therapist and all. She has two master’s degrees and she’s been on the podcast before and she’s also a performer. An adult performer and she shared some insight for therapists to support their sex worker clients. Because sex work is common is more common than we realize. I actually I. I’m always surprised. At how many people come out to me as sex workers in unexpected places as I said on a plane or in a restaurant and so really appreciate Andrea’s reminder that are showing that we’re allied isn’t necessarily about putting it on my facebook profile although therapists can do that if there are therapists listening one of Jasmine’s pieces of insight in our recent interview and I’m going to try and post it on the on the blog with this podcast as well. One of her insights was that it’s helpful for therapists to let potential clients know that they are open to and skilled at working with sex workers. So the way we say you know we’re LGBTQ friendly or we work with in specific population similarily. We can do so and you may think. Why do you have to call out that group? While we’re we’re bringing attention to it because when you’re forced to the margins you’re so used to being rendered invisible and so used to not being served and so used to facing either discrimination while definitely discrimination but also the microaggressions so appreciate Andrews Reminder that you’re an ally can often be in the way we speak in the way we speak about people. I’m just listening and nodding my head and agreeing. I think everything you said. He carries so much weight and from my perspective. Right now I’m just thinking. Sex Workers Provide Service. Everyone desires in some form whether it’s with themselves or with somebody else touch sex almost every almost everyone should have corrected myself there but they almost everyone is is longing for sex. It’s what our culture our society drives home.

00:45:00 – 00:46:29

At every point I remember King Newark during our interview with him. Talking about you know how were sold sex and sex is used to oppress us and I thought that was a really interesting take but all of this work is needed and when it comes with this judgment from everybody else who ultimately desires the touch the pleasure just seems completely ridiculous to me it just honestly it almost irritates me and I guess the another takeaway from me as let’s not just support sex workers. Let’s show the reverence that that they deserve. So I really appreciate this conversation. Appreciate Andrews insights highly. Recommend YOU CHECK OUT MODERN. Hor and yeah. Thanks for chatting baby before we go. Please do check out. Let’s get checked dot com. They offer all tests from the comfort of your home. You Mail in your samples. They have diabetes test all the STI tests lime disease tests liver task cholesterol test. All of those things that we need especially more of US staying home and avoiding the doctor’s office when we can of course go in if you have to so let’s get checked dot com. Please use my Promo Code Doctor. Just D. FOR DR To save some money and also make sure people know that you have been listening to this podcast so wherever you’re at hope you have a great week. If you are enjoying this please like subscribe and share. You’re listening to the sex with Dr Jazz podcast. Improve your sex life improve your life.