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Sex with Dr. Jess


December 6, 2019

Fat Sex, Topping & Bottoming and How To Be a Dominant in Bed

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Nikki DaVaughn joins Jess to share insights on Domination, dirty talk, fat sex and body confidence. We cover:

  • Scripts you can use if you want to try being more Dominant with your lover.
  • The difference between being a Dominant and a top; the difference between being a sub and a bottom.
  • The language of fatness: plus-size vs curvy vs fat.
  • How her mother’s voice offset the potential effects of a fat phobic and objectifying culture.
  • Body positivity versus body neutrality.

Follow Fat Bottom Cabaret on Instagram and Facebook.

Follow Nikki on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.

This podcast is brought to you and  by Desire Resorts and – Save 50% off almost any item + FREE shipping + FREE VIP rush processing at with code DRJESS50!

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Rough Transcript:

This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health or other professional advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.

Fat Sex, Topping & Bottoming and How To Be a Dominant in Bed

00:00:05 – 00:05:01

You’re listening to the sacs with Dr Jess podcast sacks and relationship advice you can use tonight Hello Hello Jessica Riley your friendly neighborhood sexologist here and today we are talking to Nikki Devan a writer storyteller a a performer. A dominatrix the host of fat bottom cabaret yes. Hi Hello thank you for being here so excited site to be here. Oh so you host fat bottom cabaret tell us all about that so fat. Bottom cavalry is a plus size cabaret troupe. Based here in Austin Texas and I am the founder and director but as a troop we put on a show once a quarter. Call them in nursery and It is a powerhouse collective of POC performers. You either have to be a person of color a person of size or you have to be queer. And it’s just A. It’s a SEC Obama’s Obama’s way to showcase people of color during their art and create visibility. And you have fun and it’s a party on stage and I am see awesome. The Harry coming up soon. Yes December seventh. It’s called fanciest. Eff that way so many times it. It is a great description we mutual friend Adam from. Yes our counseling on. I would describe him as oh absolutely absolutely. Adam is one of our sponsors sponsors for our show and every time he’s okay. I want to sponsor the show them like. That sounds great. And he’s like I’m just GonNa give you this. And every time he offers something it turns terms are show into the FA- oh you just took us up a notch on like that. He’s fancy I like it. If you’re not following moon tower counseling. I highly right. Yes check them out because what Adam has a unique ability to do Adam and sex positive families have this skill where they can give re-lease elise thoughtful and practical insights in like eight words right. I can’t do that. I need a lot of words. I’m chatty yeah talking to a turtle the other up. Can we talk about the Turtles Austin. Because you’re from Austin yes I am from here yes. I was walking along the river the other day and I saw seven turtles and the almost looked as though they were top a top of one another. Yeah right and Adams saw it on my instagram was like Oh so you went to a turtle orgy. Of course Adam said that I like Oh my God the turtles are I am very biased. They are the cutest God. Damn things in the world and is though they congregate where they know. They’re going to be a lot of people and then they do cute things like each other’s backs or like pop up on land and look around and like crawl right up to you and they’d be like nope never mind go away. It’s for the ground I think they do. I really think they do roy. Yeah same sin. Does he turn it off. I’m just kind of like a lump on a log. Yeah yes absolutely so I WANNA talk about curvy bodies yes sat body yes full bodies and the language around that because a lot of us many of us grew up with the idea that pat even the word fat bad. And we still worry about whether that’s disparaging and it was just writing a book with Marla Renee Stewart who is also the fabulous we wrote a book called the ultimate guide to seduction of four play which comes out and April Soco preorder that Ash and our publisher asked why we use the word in fact a couple of times they said. Do you WANNA use the word. full-body do you WANNA say Levin and curvy such an interesting thing. It’s almost like toning it down right and we said you know what I’m neither of us is fat and so I don’t think we get to choose the word and so if you’re working with people who in North American language we say a plus is what are your perspectives on this kind of language. Should we be using. I feel like the reason that I use. Fat is because the word word holes too much negative power in my opinion and I don’t like it I feel like a person should be able to describe themselves as what they are and fats should not be this thing. That’s like oh ill. She’s fat because what that does is it makes it even harder for personal size to move through the world so if we it’s kind of like operating off of the if we normalize this and we just make it a descriptive not good not bad just make it into scripture. I my my entire most most of the time when I am doing something I hashtag fat and black in Texas. Because that’s what I am and I don’t need it to be whispered about a don’t need it to be a there’s no shame I’m not shamed of being fat and black.

00:05:01 – 00:10:06

So why should you feel shame when you describe me as such and curvy is something that I feel is you can be a thin or straight sized person and have curves. Curvy is not something that is only for a larger body so I don’t think it fits all the time right and then there are larger body stead are not curvy and so you know what I mean. They they’ve turned it into this catchall for larger bodies and it doesn’t work for everybody and so it can sometimes feel really like you can feel left out like if you’re larger woman and you don’t have the hourglass you don’t have the ass and titties then you don’t consider yourself curvy. The and that’s not fair. Either I feel there are fat. People in the world was fat. People are sexy those fat people like they can move through life if they do everything that everybody else does. Why something that’s whispered I just now? So it’s de-stigmatising you’re down the layers of shame and let’s talk about. Why fat sex matters because we do know that portrayals of sexiness tend to be fairly one dimensional and people get praised for using? Let’s let’s say a plus size model. Who is is basically kind of just like a slightly bigger version of me right? And they’re not necessarily fat right so we don’t see a lot of visibility around fat people being sexual uh-huh people being sexy. What does fat sex mean to you? What is the empowerment means you? Can we talk about what can not only have people learn rented enjoy for themselves but also everybody can learn from because oftentimes when somebody gets pushed to the fringes. We lose out on all the lessons because they have the voice right. Exactly I feel like at one of the reasons are started. Fat Bottom was strictly for visibility. I was like surely there have got to be other fat bitches in the WORL- that want to be on stage and be sexy. I know I’m not the only one I am not reinventing the wheel. I’m not the only girl that likes her body. I’m find them. I’m GonNa find them and I’m GONNA put him on stage and visibility for me was the first step and I think that when you start talking about fat sex. That’s the first thing. Look at your body take your clothes off eff with the lights on non stop effing like effing tank tops on you know what I mean like. That’s the first part get used to you looking at your own body when you’re feeling sexy when you’re engaged in sexual act and then make other people that are in a sexual act with you also look at your body like it’s tiny. It’s not you know what I mean me like. Sometimes people know things and they just have to be given permission right. I’m not telling you anything you’d already know but there are still so many people straight size and fat the eff with the lights off are they are. They have some part of their body covered. or The you know what I mean like. That’s that’s that’s the biggest tiniest thing you can do stop cover yourself off. I love that whether it’s you’re having sex or in public and things so one thing that drives me nuts about the fashion industry and I’m not super into fashion. Honestly I know I always look dressed up but I don’t know whether trendy where the same pose over again I three of the same off the shoulder. Black dresses is exactly the same website on Amazon. Because it’s comfortable and travel as well like I have three in black one in Burgundy one and read one in her own right but one thing about the fashion industry. Is this notion of dressing for your body type and and that’s ultimately a euphemism for dressing so you can all look the same right. So how do I minimize my waist or maximize or maximum. This cavs back to obviously eurocentric notions of what beauty is one dimensional notions and most importantly notions they can profit off right liked. This is about money right. This is about capitalism So how do you rid yourself of that. Shame because whether you’re skinny or fat or you look like you’re going to be on the cover of Cozma or you look like you will never be on the cover of Cosmo even though you look damn good how we all kind of our our raised to not feel good about our right right and every day you receive a message Kinda saying you’re not good enough but I’ve got the solution. Here’s how I can fix you clean. Yeah how how do we rid ourselves of that sexual shame. So you said first and foremost take those clothes off takeoff. And if you and I so I love fashion I love clothing loving. I love to dress up. I love to put on cute tiny little close. That’s my jam. I like it and if you are if you do have clothes on the way I see it is. If it’s in your size you can wear it and if not just about to say that and if it’s not in your size you can Dan Dan we get somebody to make it for you. And that’s how I operate. I learned to so because I started seeing girls and stuff that I wanted to wear and I was like. Why is that not in my size? Why is everything in my size telling me that I should cover up and that even goes as far as like age appropriate things? I didn’t buy into that age appropriate shit anyway because at at the end of the day it’s about another person feeling uncomfortable about what they’re seeing and that is their problem.

00:10:06 – 00:15:01

That’s not mine. You gotta Ask Yourself. Why are you so uncomfortable? Full seeing my family. Why does it bother you so much and again it is society society saying that’s not okay? That’s not what you want to look at. That’s not what you we WANNA eff. That’s not what you want to look like. This is what she wanted. Look like this is what we can control. This is what we can offer. If we make you hate yourself self we get more money for you. Know Ninety nine payments of nine hundred exactly exactly and a little bit of your so you to look like this person that does not look like that either because they are photoshop to help like it’s and that’s why we cease. Skin bleaching some is being from Jamaica often followed the Jamaican media and they’ll talk about skin bleaching and this is these are chemicals in our body you’re botulism in our body and I’m not suggesting. Let me be clear. I think people should do what works for right. Of course if you want to die your hair of course want for extensions if you want to have a procedure done. That’s I support you. What I don’t support is a culture after that forces us and I’ll be really not judging individuals same and I think you should Europe? What feels great for you? I think you just you hit the nail on the head. That’s about your decision. It’s your your decision. If you decide that that’s what you WanNa do girl do what you WanNa do. Do you want to do that. Is Your Body it’s yours. You’re the only one that has control Lovin Agency of it and and that’s all I’m saying don’t let outside influences. Tell you what to do with yourself. You decide that you want to get plastic. Search you on die your hair. You WanNa get booty. You WanNa get lip. Yes Bitch get that get it but it needs to be your effing decision now because someone told you you’re not good enough well and so let’s say you do you take your own advice which has to get naked and enjoy your eight naked body and then when you do dress dress in a way that’s comfortable vote for yourself. They’re still the reality. That advice. Taking without context is is GONNA subject people to to oppression to down the street treat. I remember having some friends in university And we were walking behind a girl and her but was hanging out of her shorts man who was kind of pre that style. So Oh that style wasn’t around you know. I was in university in the fifties so would yes. It was a while ago and I remember a friend saying like why would she even wear that and I remember turning to them and saying I’m wearing shorts that they’re short and they said yeah but you can pull it off and I remember saying it’s not cool man. I was twenty years old and and he didn’t. You know I couldn’t articulate myself. The way I could today I think I’d say but obviously say more today. But what do you do when you face that. Fat Phobia Yeah. It’s I have to I had come with someone about this recently because I she asked me about something she wanted wanted to wear a dress or something I was like girl just address and she reminded me you come from a place of someone. That’s been doing this for a very long time. And so I tried to remember when I talked to people about how having having ownership of their bodies. You’re going to be met with resistance about something anytime you are are true to yourself sometimes. It’s your size. Sometimes it’s your personality. Sometimes it’s how you choose to wear your hair anytime you’re confident in who you are and you and you set the boundary of not giving a eff with other people have to say about it. It upsets people. And they’re going to try really hard to impose what they believe. Even what makes them comfortable on you and so anytime someone anytime. I’m called a fat bitch anytime I’m told to cover up anytime in the that happens. Pence I take that minute. I don’t hide in shame I turn around. I looked because I want you to see. You’re talking to a person I’m not going to engage with you. I’m not the put in danger but I am going to turn around and look at you so you can look at me and see that. I’m a person that you’re talking to you right and sometimes I’ll say some slick sometimes I won’t but you will look at me and then I have to remember. Okay you know what the saying about me. This is about them. This is about the fact that in some way they don’t get to do what they wanna do and male transferring and projecting on to me and I don’t feel sorry for you but I’m not GonNa Take Your Shit so I’m going to let you know that I’m a person I hear you. I see what you just said. I’M GONNA go about my day and then when that happens go take care yourself little tiny things self care. You know what I mean. What is software there for me now for me? I like to something like that happens. I like to go and be around my girls. I like to be around people that I know me. They we know Nikki. They don’t give a eff about what I look like. They know me. They know I’m a good person. They know we have fun. They make me feel good. If and that fuels me have if that’s not something that feels you.

00:15:01 – 00:20:03

You do something that you like to do. Treat yourself whatever it is because you’ve earned it you’ve lived through this really tough moment this really shitty moment that was put on you by somebody the effing know so treat yourself to something. I love that and we all run in two different incidents incidents. Where if somebody makes you feel bad about you’re right? This is still experience and of course everybody but it’s worse for some people though right if you’re a person of color if you’re a woman if if you’re perceived to be clear if you are if you don’t look rich right because there is certain great people who might be celebrated and I and we think about like Lizardo. He’s loving as we should be as jess and do you feel that way about all the other people in your life right. I saw. I saw me about that the other the day like it so yes we are so glad that you love Lonzo now give that same energy to the fat woman in your office or the fat woman in your apartment complex so the fat woman that you see Z.. Everyday or the person that you see. Let’s talk about guys who are fat pig right some talk about body image for for women and families but there is a huge the amount of pressure on men as well and it seems that there is even a more one dimensional expectation of what a hot man looks flake effing Lou and I think so. Many men have been resigned to believe that. They’re not sexy and they’re not desirable and that’s okay and in some ways they’re lucky because men are valued for so many other things deep which is right. Yeah their career and their charisma or the green mother a great partner and AH obviously all people should be valued for the multi dimensions of pieces of their personality. But when it comes to the way you look very few man man especially straight man experience being desired right I find that especially straight men if if they have a larger body they get lumped into the psycho. He’s Teddy Bear. Oh He’s a big teddy bear. He’s a big strong man he’s it’s okay. He’s he’s got a little. Dad bought her a little pot belly or a little. You know he they turn them into this like like I like a sexual. Yeah thank you. That’s what I’m looking for this ace sexual you know pet of some sort but like just because someone has a larger just because male identified person has a larger body. It doesn’t mean that they don’t want to also unless they are a sexual that they don’t want to also be you know effed or they admired or desired. Like yeah cool. You can think of me as a teddy bear but also like I am a man I do. I want to be looked at as a sexual being so I also have to like watch my language. I have to change the way I see. Things have plenty of male friends. That I because Huzzah our relationship. I do view them as big teddy bears and I do like no. Oh and I’m like Nikki. You hate them people do that tonight. So it counts men in count to Mel identified. People count to they need to be. They want to be desired as well so we have to make sure that we don’t characterize him as these asexual well like for lack of a better word. Plus she’s like like something that you will cuddle but not eff about you know. We’re seeing representations of fat people in Media. I wonder what you think. Are we in a good place. Because the representation is increasing or is it just one more layer of ah fat phobia where being fat becomes the center of their story. I think it’s both I think it’s both because that bike. I look. There’s the show this us. I look at that she’ll so and this is us the which is crazy popular shown television. I can’t watch because it makes me cry too much every teardrop. Everything said all the time Tom but they but they have a couple the sister kate and her husband whose name I can’t remember and they do an excellent job of portraying this big man as a sexual being and I see him and I watch him like effing job man like I want to have sex with that person. The key is sexy and he talks about sex in re in a traditional the way any man will talk about so. That’s the other thing sometimes. Fat Fat hat bodied male represented people you exit. They don’t even want to even speak in a way that would that would remind you that they want to have you know they’re uh-huh given the opportunity right as they’re kind of seen as thankful to be having sex so his rights framing of who I am when you think about what sex is as sure. Is it partly visual experience. Where you know the aesthetic matterson you might love the way curves? Look you might love that some extra roles you might. I love a bone poking out of the hip for somebody’s right.

00:20:03 – 00:25:01

So that’s part of it. Why do you have sex right? And what are the feelings you experienced during sex. A pleasure action euphoria excitement. Maybe some risk maybe some challenge and you wonder does us only the aesthetic affect those outcomes or it’s not quite a small percentage of what affects. I’m not trying to suggest that the way you look doesn’t matter of course. Of course we like what you like. Yes but you also have to consider why you like what you like right fair. Yeah and as someone who so you know has seen a lot of live sex and I’ve talked about this before. I am so surprised that the bodies by which turned on are not the bodies. He’s that I’m told I should be turned on by I if I really let myself get into my animalistic desires. So I say that there’s cultural desire and animalistic listrik desire. So animalistic is the natural. I let myself go. I let go of my notions of what’s good and bad and I am so attracted to so many many different types of people whereas cultural prescriptions. Tell me here’s what I should be attracted. Here’s what I find physically attractive and it’s funny because you know you can be around all those people all the time and experience attraction because you’ve been told you should like that but it’s not your actually your jam right right and then we do. We painted as in fact if you look at fat women in movies for many years and comedies. They’re almost begging and it’s the butt of a joke. It is absolutely the Buffalo Joke. How does that feel all to have people who look like you be made the butt of a joke sexually? I mean it feels as you imagine him. Afield sucks you you know it because you don’t nobody always wants to be the funny sidekick like that’s the thing for the girl in any most meals that you see yes she’s funny and she’s the sidekick and she’s the butt of a joke and she’s desperate and she’s just and it’s and it’s almost always effing man it’s always like I want this man and so I’m going to put myself in these positions that make me look ridiculous and it is. It’s not a per that that’s when you become come. You’re not a person anymore now. You just character your object. An object cartoon character it’s Card it’s like buffoonery is the only only using using some body. Somebody’s body right. Your humor right. I mean I’m really funny person. Know when you’re when you’re funny there are a lot out of things about which you can joke. You don’t have to always do so low. And it’s super boring. It doesn’t allow for fat where it kind of affects those of us that are funny naturally like it affects me in a way. That’s like oh well like I had to. I had to really check myself and be like you do not always have to be funny right but also you can be funny and still be sexy. Like don’t let that dictate. How how you move through the world and it’s hard not to because that’s all you effing see so like for a while? I’m like I went to this. You know I went through this as I was like no. I’m serious I am. I’m a vamp like this this is about this is not about me being funny. This is about me being sexy and that is how I need you to see me because because I will not be the butt of a joke I will not be the funny side kick. I won’t be the wing woman to be hilarious just hilarious but sometimes sometimes you want to be the entree right like you WanNa be the entree character right. I really appreciate you sharing that perspective. I it’s a I think a topic. I’m personally uncomfortable talking about for because I’m not fat and I grew up with really conflicting messages around being fat. ’cause I’m a blend of these cultures One culture that treats skinny as an ideal and one culture that actually treats fat as an ideal right because it means healthy wealthy and you have enough to eat and I always felt really conflicted. I’ve probably talked about the fact before that When I was younger I remember an adult in my life and my family saying into another adult and I overheard and so just to clarify was gymnast? I was probably thirty eight pound really when I was little. I was so tiny and I remember him saying. Oh you can really. We see the fat on Jessica’s body now that she’s in shorts and even as a child I remember so again we’re saying fat can be a positive where but it was not used in a positive. I know the context matters but what I remember thinking at seven years old. I don’t know how old I was. Okay I remember where I was though I was on the Toronto Herat’s Oh kind of hard steps of my grandma and GRANDPA’s house in Jamaica. I remembered the moment and I was so little but I am so lucky that I remember thinking wrong wrong with this guy like I’m really healthy.

00:25:02 – 00:30:06

Really strong not in that language. But I was gymnast competitive gymnastics. I remember thinking like my buddies. Great I’m supposed to be. I’m I’m thinking I’m so lucky that I had that mindset and I think part of why had that mindset is because I played sports was a runner played lots of things and so I saw functionality analogy in my body right not just the way it looked but I’m really lucky because I think a lot of kids that would become internalized and I sometimes wondering like how do I like myself despite that you know those key moments in your upbringing I still remember to this day. Same Yeah I I got really lucky. I come from a family of large women right so and not just let them in large people And my mom. Tom is a nurse and so my mother started very very young with me. I’ve always been full of energy of always danced. I’ve always run around amount. I’ve never been very sedentary but also always been a little chunk like always and so my mom started very very young with the like daily. Look how cute you are. Look how good you look look at you running around like a little past. I could just like. She instilled such such a sense of like strong. Like identity in me even when the like. You’re too fat. You have tits. And you’re only because I developed electorally to then I remember my grandma and my my uncle’s like hey you gotta but that big that small. That was what it was for me but grew quicker than the rest of me and I just remember having hearing my mom’s voice being like you’re so pretty you’re perfect. Look at you. Look at you. You gots exactly how you supposed to look you. Got Your ancestors hips. You’ve got your aunt. So and so’s hips you’ve got this. Let’s don’t keep strong. That’s GONNA keep you starting. That’s going to keep doing this. S. can keep moving scripts. I had those tips from my mom. And my that’s my mom would always be like those legs exist going to keep you strong. Those legs keep strong. Butt’s GonNa keep you strong and so in my head. My growing body was for strength. Like it’s like Oh this is what’s GonNa keep me moving through my life. This is what’s GonNa keep me and I had like seven uncles and so there was also that my mom’s like as you’re getting older. This is how you protect yourself. Nobody should be touching so it’s like she’s she planted. That see like this is yours. This body is yours nobody can nobody can touch it. Liberty can talk shit about it. It’s exactly how it’s supposed to be keep moving you like. She made sure to eat a bunch of crap. But like you know what I mean like mom and I’m so lucky and all. We all need to be that this and for someone else but also find that person for you in life and we really really really need that I always think about my body being like the vessel that carries me through life. And I don’t have I can’t hate it because I love life right right right and you go through you go through dips valleys. Of course that’s a great way so you don’t always have to be body. Positive can be body neutral right. Yes they’re going. It’ll be some times where you just say girl. I appreciate what you’ve done for me so far but we mount saint page today. Actually if you’re feeling heavy or your Ooh so I again I really want to thank you for sharing your insight on this because this is this is newer to me and it’s an important perspective and I think that we all learned learned from mccaskey. But I want to shift gears. Says you’re our dominatrix. Yes and only folks are interested in learning how to be dominant that and we don’t know where to start and we get a lot of APPs abstract advice. Do you have anything specific. So let’s say you’d like to be a little bit more dominant in bed not a dominate tricks. But a little bit rate. What are some physical things you can do? And what are some things you can say so. I think that the easiest thing is this. The first thing that she wanted to learn is what language do you identify with so you have tops and bottoms. Okay can you explain eh sure so a top is someone that typically when you’re in bad the top is the person that is. I don’t WanNA use the word aggressor but the top is the person that runs wants to show the doer. Yeah you have the doer and then you have the receiver. The receiver is the bottom and it doesn’t even have to be like like literally receiving but the top is typically the person that is the director if you will right so this is what we’re doing now. This is what I’m doing. How does this feel you know what I mean? The bottom will let the top. No I like this. I don’t like this Blah Blah Blah when you start talking into dominant and submissive that that goes more into a power balance you start it starts.

00:30:06 – 00:35:02

It starts to become less of like these. Are things that we’re doing doing to each other and more really about a balance of power and permission right. That’s an important distinction. Yeah mom versus is bottom is the way generally you’re physically On versus the sub is power exchange. So exactly a dumb from the bottom exactly sometimes like where has mostly because I’m physically lazy in bed will tell so you can be bottoming and control good for Bossy. Lazy People like it is and that’s and that’s a really important thing that you you have to know. I think that things get lumped together. People have this idea of what a dominatrix is. And it means that I’ve got on like leather. And they’ve got a whip and I’ve got a sometimes sometimes yes but also on Thursdays for sure right but also it can be something as simple as denying your partner denying your partner pleasure until they ask a certain way. And so what would I say if I wanted to don by dom I would start with. Yes so so I would start with asking what your partner wants. What do you want what do you want? Do you like when I do this to you. So if I put my hand in your mouth if I put two fingers in your mouth and I can tell you like it and I say to you like this and they say yes yes take your fingers out. I hate your fingers is out of the mouth because I like it because you like it way exactly so take it away. And that establishes the initial like. Oh we’re shifting. We’re shifting in order for you to get that again. I want you to do this do you want me to do. So if I say I take my finger out of my mouth and I say I want you to touch your nipples bulls touching nipples. Put Your own finger mouth circle your nipples circle your nipple and while you’re doing that when I like it I’ll stick my finger back in your mouth and say as a reward. Good girl good girl I like that. Yeah and that sets up the dynamic rate that gives people an opportunity to ease into like oh and cultivate exactly enthusiastic and fat. Exactly this is new. This is new. Do you want me to immediate touch touch your nipple do you want me to touch her nipple. Yes asked me to do it. And then when they ask that’s nicer I think you can do better than that. Pretty please exactly exactly. And then you give the reward and that creates that balance of like Oh this is an asking and receiving and if I want something think I just have to do this and it creates this relationship between you and your person of I wanNA please please my my mom I wanna please as her and I know that if I do this this will please her and so then as the dawn you have to notice the next time you guys are intimate. You’re like oh they’re doing that thing that good I like incident. You have to say Oh look at you. I see what you’re doing. Do you like touching yourself that way. Yes okay well. Why don’t you stop for now? L. Let’s do something else deprivation. Yeah all and so it’s gentle. You know what I mean gently and it doesn’t have to be rough and even even like it rai it’s interesting because that’s all quite emotional There’s a component to it but it doesn’t really have to be about fingers in the mouth or touching of the nipple. Yeah it’s the emotional interesting. Yeah and so. Some people think that you can’t be Kinky ’cause you’re not wearing leather right because you know. I’m in my sweatpants sweatpants. Exactly right and also like the other thing that I think people don’t do is you do these fun things and bad and surprise each other they never effing talk about it again. So Oh after you’re done then later when you’re talking with your person hey like what did you think about that. How did you feel about that did you? Did you like that. Would you want this would you. How would you feel about that? And then he gives you the opportunity to one later on go back and be like oh I remember she said Oh next time maybe you can you know spank me a little next time. Maybe you can do this and they got it allows you to build. You know what I mean and aftercare is so important aftercare aftercare not kinky. It’s so funny so if I were to cook something that I know so I cook for my partner brand really likes this and it did something different committee. I added CIPOLLA I would say. Hey did you like that with AAA right. Yes right yeah Yada. It was really good. I think I could actually take more and then the next time. If I were cooking for them I might add more tripled lick right and I wouldn’t know if he liked more AAA but he wouldn’t be nervous to tell me like my mom.

00:35:02 – 00:40:03

My mom is a fabulous card and I’m really is what I love about her. I mean I love lots of things about my amendment is that I can. I can be honest like she brought over these ginger cookies the other day and they were a bit sweet for me. They were covered in sugar. And I couldn’t taste the ginger and she said how did you like them on my. I Love Them. I think I would love them with a little less sugar. And she’s like Oh. I’m glad you told me because otherwise she’s going to bring over the same sweet cookies and I’m not GonNa want exactly how how is supposed to know what I like but I will always tell her if I don’t like her cooking I think people don’t like but if there’s something I’d like lace because she isn’t acts of service person my love. Language is number six EXP food right so I want to make sure I’m getting the love I want. I deserve enjoy exact and so we communicate in every other round. And we need to do that after care. Insects whether you’re kinky or not every every time off time and I keep hearing this like This conversation about well if you talk about things it takes wait no doesn’t know and the data if you talk about sex you have more free exactly. You have higher fire sexual functioning and more workout exactly so stop that shit that like this belief that Mike what she talked about it and like what if you talk about it what then you find out more of what your partner hurt likes you find out what they don’t like you found. You found out all of these things. Why do we have tasting notes on why we have food reviews of restaurants? Why do we have book club where you can sit around and discuss book? I read it. Why don’t need to hear your perspective well because it gives me a brand? New Perspective opens up new dimensions. So same thing for sex. It’s like I might do something by accident and not even notice I do it and then my partner can be like. Oh Man I love that thing you did with your Pinky Toe and all that thank you. Joe slipped in that even mean to do but this is my pinky tone. Exactly exactly yeah before I let you go if somebody wants to learn to be more dominant bad or wants to ask their partner to be more dominant or more submissive. Where can we start? How do we start that conversation? I always tell people to start by researching together research together research together because you know in every city I won’t say every I’m generalizing generalized most cities. You have kinky things that you can go and just be a voyeur. You don’t have to do anything there. There’s unfortunately there’s a stigma about kinky parties and play parties and there are plenty. That aren’t awesome but a large majority of them. You can go you and your partner and sit and watch and you can feel each other’s reactions and you can talk. What do you think about that? What do you think about what she’s doing? What do you think about this? If that’s a little too much for you sit down with your partner opened up the effing book open up a video open up at like web. Their websites their videos their books talk talk about and and it has to be said that these websites books and videos that you can go go are specific Hetero kink queer cake lesbian gay. Kate Trans can like there are so much out there for you and your partner to just look through and say. Hey Babe like I’ve been thinking about this thing that can we just sit down together and it sounds so silly but it is such a perfect way. Because it’s not you off by yourself. I wish I could do this and I wish we could do that. They never go for it. They’ll never go for it. You don’t know sit down with your person research it and watching video especially in instruction action I mean. I don’t think anyone’s most people are not going to shut that down and remember that it’s not always an escalation. It’s not like when we talk about it. We read about it. We Watch video Taylor Dungeon. You may discover that the person who thought they weren’t into it in the beginning is more into it as a person who all gung Ho Ho pulls back so you know. Just keep that open mind and I really do believe that you don’t have to do everything sexually but I think you have to be open to a discussion. Yes and also just a really quick thing to remember with kinks swell sometimes. especially if you’re thinking in dom submissive kind of way your dom is just creating An experience for you. Sometimes sometimes that does not equal sex. Can you talk sometimes has no sex. Yes which is Li- going to those kinky events sounds can be really hackley because it can be a lot of talking that joke in NBA Dsm communities and poly-amorous communities that you spend on. I’m not I’m having this is true. Yeah and but that actually makes it hot. It builds anticipation GONNA get the dopamine Russian. It’s okay to be uncomfortable. Well if you go and you feel kind of freak. You’re freaking out. That’s okay too because it gives you something to talk about. Your partner can sue you. Many reaction is a valid reaction and and here in a great thing to remember about these parties.

00:40:03 – 00:42:09

In about these situations is that You can come as a couple as a first timer more more often than not you can contact them ahead of time and say hi were new couple. We’d love to come and a lot of those places will assign someone to you just just like a person to kind of get a body. I love that. That’s probably an indicator of a a good place to start like a reputable place to go if they’re really focused just on the educational piece in making people say the same thing for sex clubs or swing clubs that you know. I think most of the good ones offer tours. Yes and it’s not a special thing like Oh once a month it’s you know when you come. We have staff on hand that will help to acclimatise you. That will show you the where the safer sex supplies are that will help you become comfortable with the advocate. They they can help me with the language of yes and no and all the other nuances of going to someplace new for the first time. There’s a place here that does that and I was so impressed like like when I. It wasn’t my first time but I had brought a couple of friends that was their first time Austin Train China okay. And so and then. There’s the north outdoor north doors where you’re doing your fat bottom cabaret yes. And that is on December. The seventh folks can follow you online. You’re at What’s your handle for Mickey Devan? Okay awesome postal that. Uh thank you so much for chatting. Thanks for sharing your personal insights. You’re more professional insights. I thank you for having me. This awesome thank you and before we go folks please check out at desire experience our sponsor desire resorts. I can’t wait to get naked on the May crews in the south of France and Monaco. So make sure you follow them online at desire experience experience. Wherever you’re at have a wonderful day? We’ll be back next Friday and every Friday with a whole new episode. Thanks for listening. You’re listening to the sex with Dr Jazz podcast. Improve your sex life improve your life.