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Sex with Dr. Jess


July 12, 2019

Dr. Donaghue on Toxic Monogamy, Body Neutrality & Erectile Disappointment

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Loveline‘s host, Dr. Chris Donaghue joins Jess and Brandon to share insights from his latest book, Rebel Love: Break The Rules, Destroy Toxic Habits and Have the Best Sex of Your Life. They discuss porn addiction, solo-sexuality,  body image, toxic masculinity, the drawbacks of monogamy and the habits we need to break to tap into authentic sexuality.

Thank you to We-Vibe and Womanizer for bringing Dr. Donaghue to Toronto!

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Rough Transcript:

This is a computer-generated rough transcript, so please excuse any typos. This podcast is an informational conversation and is not a substitute for medical, health or other professional advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the services of an appropriate professional should you have individual questions or concerns.

Dr. Donaghue on Toxic Monogamy, Body Neutrality & Erectile Disappointment

00:00:05 – 00:05:03

You’re listening to the sacs with Dr Jess podcast sacks and relationship advice. You can use tonight <music>. Welcome to the sex with Dr Just podcast. I’m your co host Brandon wear and I am accompanied by my ravishing partner Dr Jess I asked him to do my intro and that’s what I got. That’s the bad was it all right. I think that’s pretty cool or cool. What was wrong with that? We’re GONNA be talking about some interesting subjects today and before we get started. I want to say thank you to desire resorts for their ongoing support poor checkout at desire experienced for clothing optional cruising clothing optional resorts. You should also check out temptation resorts sister company that is open to singles groups threesomes couples and more they’re not clothing optional but they are topless optional and I’m sure there are some rooms or secret crevices you can sneak into and get bottomless now what I’m really waiting for we have clothing optional resorts. We have topless optional resorts. When are we going bottomless optional resorts? Hopefully never you know those classy places where you keep your top on but shirk cock down Nevada also known as shirt caulking king yet sure caulking. I guess where you wear a shirt but your penis is hanging out the bottom. You’ll agreed said no one ever at assure cocking event hang on what if you’re wearing a fanny pack. Oh yeah took it up a notch or ten I have I have seen in the shirt talking with the fanny pack and you know I think I was a bit of a fan of it. Fanny Pack Fan Really L.. I didn’t even mean to do that so before we get started with our interview and we’ve got a really cool guest. Today I was reading this headline that women men under the age of thirty dream about sex three times as often as their grandma’s did fifty years ago a really surprising though you know what I think we just are more open to who admitting it sometimes when I see numbers that relate to increase in sexual desire or frequency or behavior. I think that it has to do with a willingness to admit it but you’d Grandma’s had their freak on. They probably got probably had some crazy kinky awesome thoughts lots just never told anyone about them. Have you had any extremes lately I have how and it was with someone totally not like into knocking to name drop but I woke up thinking wow that was not what I expected to dream about last night at all. Was it a good dream no even in the dream I was like man. That’s actually what I remember thinking I’m like. Are we really doing this. I had a nightmare last night. It wasn’t about sex I had this nightmare that I told off someone in my family. I said everything I wanted to say to this person and then it was Christmas Eve in my dream and my mom was really upset me for telling this person off and I woke up with my heart racing. I couldn’t go back to sleep. I’ve done that. I’ve woke up almost had forgotten panic attack because of whatever I was dreaming about in didn’t even remember I just woke up crazy anxiety. I’ve been asked about dreams before or I’m definitely no expert on dreams. I would love to talk to somebody who has actual it. You know empirical evidence in research around dreams because I’m sure this dream I had last night you know is a reminder that I probably have some things. I wish I could get off my chest. I think we should have segment called brandon interpreter. Dreams okay interpret go so so hold on what what was the dream though remind me again Christmas Eve I yelled at someone in my family and I told them everything I think so you should have anal and probably eat some ice chips and <hes> down four shots of hot sauce. I’ve no idea where that came from. Yeah that really helped. Thank you so much welcome. Hey you know what that was. Seventy uh-huh seven grant seven grand your therapy pitch like almost therapists over works so today we are going to be talking about a number of topics if we have time from toxic masculinity to Solo Sexuality you too porn addiction and how to have the best sex ever we are joined by Dr Chris Donohue Host of Love Line as well as the emperor’s Dr Chris Show podcast. Thanks for being here all the way from Los Angeles. Is there a big difference between sex in Los Angeles and Sexton Toronto or have. You not had time for that so funny. My friends are saying that to do as proud wire in the city one fortunately landed last night and I got a cold on the airplane so boy. That’s how exciting life is right now okay well.

00:05:03 – 00:10:10

I mean just in my neighborhood where we’re recording right now. There’s plenty of Gabor’s cool so there’s log on doors when I leave there was there’s actually one guy knocking on our door yesterday looking for brandon. Oh Oh Brennan was out about completely ignored jess in she was no word of a lie she was standing next to me didn’t even register that she was there yeah yeah we’ll leave it there okay. Maybe if you put on some pants let’s you wouldn’t notice no pants so so Dr Chris Donohue was in Toronto this week for a precedent with womanizer and we vibe and you’re going to be talking about some male sex sex myths that’s right what what are we at wrong about sexuality everything I mean and that’s one of the reasons so I know we’re GonNa talk about done road but I my newest book rebel love I wrote for the same reason because we’re getting a lot of things wrong and we’re also at a time find. The where people are trying to kind of push their boundaries and so a couple of things are I often get tied to gender too much where I think people get trapped limited by their gender and what ties into that like you know toxic masculinity homophobia and so a lot of guys aren’t willing to really explore what I would call their authentic sexuality and so right now working hard reminding people that whatever you think your sexual orientation is and I mean that beyond gender it’s far bigger because few of us will really push boundaries in terms of like our sex positivity body positively even within gender and stuff like that so I think the first myth is that is that we’re all a little more sexy flu than we realize and again not always gender-based. You’re just in terms of parts of our body will allow to utilize sexually and the kinds of sex acts will try also. I’ve been talking a lot. Lot In my practice about the idea that not all men are tops and a lot of heterosexual couples they expect the man to be the assertive more sexual being I work with a lot of clients where the males quite passive and a bottom and so I have to reorient that with a female saying my God you know if my husband won’t grab me throw me down and we’re like looking over at him and he is gentle soft man. I’m like your husband is a bottom. You need to be the assertive top and so it means the relationship can’t work sexually or we work on pushing outside of that but I think that’s misunderstanding also just around erections I work with so many people that really see erectile disappointment or failure as a disorder and it’s not you know there’s there’s an expectation that it’s going to kind of shift and it happens it happens to every every single person at some point in your life. I like that you even call it erectile disappointment in not dysfunction like the power of language right and I’m sure that that’s something that you have to talk about is it could be something that’s just a temporary setback and you don’t accept it move on respect it yeah and I think so. I think you might have actually been there. We the sex Expo New York City a couple years ago. I mean depriving their thousand times. I was presenting and it was really funny. Because before me was some doctor doing like a sexual dysfunctions or no no no it was erectile dysfunction sound like that was like a reptile’s functions and then after it was like Dr Chris the myth of Iraq top because I’m always the one trying to dismantle and challenge these problematic norms that make people really really unable to feel confident in their bodies and their sexualities and as we age every decky we should expect another ten percent chance of erectile disappointments or frustrations and so it’s not if it’s when and what are you going to do about it when it happens. How confident can you be? Is that what it is. Is that a ten percent percent reduction every decade or stats but that’s the one that I most confident in is every decade another ten percent chance you’re forties forty percent of the time fifty fifty percent sixty sixty part of natural aging and so that’s why you get comfortable using fingers tongues toys not erectile bay sex non penetrative sex your nose gets your damn nose in their give them give them a nose job already goes side to side up and down round and round in and out. Have you ever felt the tip of your nose. Give it a feel all these people on the subway right now are touching their nose hopefully and my mom too because I know she’s listening. It’s got such a texture to it. It actually sort of feels like a cervix if you’ve ever felt a cervix you really do talk about getting your nose in there. I’ve heard you say it yeah. Yeah I tell them you know what ninety eight point six percent of Vaginas don’t bite ninety two percent of Amos’s don’t bite so get your damn nose in there without the knows yeah. I mean I’ll cite you too. I’ll be like look well. I made eight up those statistics so rose piece. I haven’t heard anyone talk about engaging the no so I will reference you as as the you know the knows person knows job doctor right and the people I tell them like they need something to grind against and that’s something is your face right. What do you want us to grind against the air? This isn’t an air humping competitions. Get in there. Don’t be afraid of it whatever it is. You’re eating anus vagina anything so you talked about body positivity. Do you love your body. <hes> it’s really good question so let me talk about an Broadway and then zero and I think it’s hard for a few of us to really feel solid on a percent of the time in our bodies.

00:10:11 – 00:15:32

I was jokingly saying that I’ll be at the gym and I’ll be working out and standing next to me is the exact model across the street on a billboard in his underwear and so you cannot not be reminded of what is expected of you or what your quote unquote competition is. However you WanNa hear that word? If you’re single or whatever it is <hes> so you’re constantly being reminded <hes> you’re supposed to look a certain way and even if you do you’re held hostage by the idea that you need to maintain that because your partner may be wanted that from you expect that from you or culture does and so I- care that pressure for sure and part of the work I do I think is because I look fungible. I look like I’m having saks and my clients and people I work with and four need to buy into that believe that so it’s hard and as the body ages and changes and I travel a lot not always able to eat the food I want to eat so I have to encounter struggles in issues but overall I would say it’s not that I love my body. As much as I try to be body neutral and just not really considerate or think about it interesting. We’re all evil to eat and I go to the gym and it is what it is and I’m pretty confident just being like here’s what it looks like today or this week or this month still that’s great. I like that Wadleigh Neutral S._O.. I love my body and it’s not the way it looks. Necessarily I like the way it looks but I just feel like and I’ve said this before. It’s just the vessel that carries me through life and I got a love it man I played ultimate Frisbee last night. I Know Brennan makes fun of me for it. Wow I climbed. She not good no. She’s an amazing ultimate frisbee player. She really his but the people that play ultimate Frisbee are very into it. I thought he was going to say another word expletive. Eh honestly I’m trying to I played for a season and then almost got into a fight over somebody calling me out okay. We’re not gonNA. WE’RE NOT GONNA go game. I get like really aggressive again Chris. It’s a game it’s like board e the START I start getting yeah so I understand up pretty much pretty much. No nobody owns park place right yeah so so I just appreciate that my body does does such so much for me and I think that it so much of what we talked about Iran body which has to do with the way we look and of course that’s something as you said like you’re constantly remind it reminded of but also just its function right the way it moves from me. I don’t know I as I get older and I’m not that old yet but I got a big birthday coming up next year. So I’ve got the big show coming up party planning already and yeah I think about you know if I can live forty more years or eighty more years after that I just want my body to keep functioning and so much of our body love is tied to the way we look and how do you get beyond at a couple of things one of the things on the big proponent of his people on following the images on their social media that make them feel bad or tell them look a certain way which upsets a lot of influencers and I’ve had them come after me because I’m messing with their paycheck but <hes> you know there’s people that want that great follow that but then there’s people where they’re spending their entire day consistently bathing their psyche and their self esteem these images that they’ll never live up to northern nor do they need to so tell them follow things that make more sense also just set boundaries with their friends friends. Tell your friends. Let’s talk about our bodies. Let’s not be that group. That’s actually support each other build community and also we have to surround ourselves in a healthier thought so I tell people you have to do some reading. What are you listening to so yeah you have? Took responsible for your environment. I appreciate that now you also brought up toxic masculinity and your book is called rebel of break the rules destroyed toxic habits and have the best sex of your life and so when you say toxic masculinity there are people who get their backup because they think think we’re talking about all forms of masculinity and let’s erode all things that are traditionally or culturally masculine and that’s not what we’re talking about when we say toxic Max Masculinity so what is it. How do we bring it to? It’s knees. It’s a it’s a good question questions of big topic so in my in my use of toxic masculinity are the elements of maleness or being male bodied that work against you and are toxic for you the world you know people that are female identified as well and that keep you limited and traps if we’re talking specifically about sexuality. It’s the idea that there’s certain ways you need to and should be sexual because you can’t be a bottom or passive. You always have to be hyper sexual. Your penis better always be functioning because that tremaine sexual tool you can’t ever explore sexuality with the same sex or maybe even trans identified. You have to not have a lot of emotionality you know so these aspects that really limit your being yeah and the costs of that like that last piece around expressing emotion because I was reading this work that men’s brains are more emotionally responsive in the areas that we associate with emotional response when you put them in a lab and exposed to them to some sort of emotional stimuli but when you ask them after what they felt their far less expressive so they say they’re not as emotional channel but in terms of brain functioning we’re seeing more emotional response to that stymying of something natural must cost us so much we stopped we stopped touching boys at around age eight and that’s when we stopped providing young males with affection a and then they come into my office wanting to learn how to be expressive of their partners like and my partners and affectionate doesn’t touch me and healing us how to express his masculine through sports or sex so that’s a problem <hes> so tusked masculine Ian the way it shows up in my practice of the I work with just trying to like live outside of gender norms.

00:15:33 – 00:20:10

I really think that they fell everything up and that we should not use those as a way to define our sexuality so we could just put people like you and me out of business. If we eradicated gender jokingly they say as soon as SIS Hetero identified guys are willing to do anal don here. I need to do no more because that moment is going to tell me that we’ve achieved so much in terms of like sexism toxic masculinity so anybody seemed like that is the moment that it’s all been resolved and brought to its knees as you said because when strike is just laying there consistently comfortably I hear I hear a lot of what you’re saying. I mean I fall. I fall into that in the sense that I’m I’m not always aggressive in our relationship. I’m not always willing to admit how I feel like I mean I I have to work on it and I have to be cognizant of it but also when you surround yourself with people that are not willing to to do the same it just kind reinforces this idea of what it means to be macho or or that toxic masculinity that you’re referencing and you I mean as much as what you just said about straight six gender having anal and then your work is done. It’s not gonNA start there so it’s almost like within your group. Somebody needs to be willing to take that leap initially and have a meaningful conversation even just to get things started and I’ll tell you like I have friends now that I will meet and have more meaningful conversation and I still have friends very good friends that are conversations. Seemingly are superficial and it’s hard to make that transition to have an emotionally vulnerable conversation but when why do why does it make a difference and I’m not saying I’m breaking down in a conversation to start but I’m just saying screw it. I’m going to start expressing how I feel and even some of these things that you’ve made reference to thus thus far about I didn’t know the statistic about ten percent erectile dissatisfaction as you progress. I mean that’s a really interesting statistic for me to be aware of but I wanted to be laboratory for people rights of course not many people panics and people panicked but then also associating sex with penetration and it’s like it doesn’t even just that mindset needing to change it and say hey man like just because you can’t perform the way that you think you can perform doesn’t mean that it can’t be enjoyable for everyone here like use your nose <music> or your nose is always there. Let’s put it this. This is the problem that that’s couple of that is female partners that personalized the inability of the partner together maintain an erection. What’s wrong with me? Are you attracted to me anymore. Don’t you love me so it’s also about having them understand so they can back that off the performance element for guys like if I can’t perform something I’m not enough of a man or something’s wrong with me and I mean I’ve had personally like we’ve we’ve been intimate and I’m worried about like is everything okay and then I started getting in my brain and I’m thinking is something wrong with me even having sex because sexist most fun pleasurable connective so it’s like you’ve stepped outside and psychological cool. You now do something else. I’m worrying yeah. I’m having this anxiety filled moments not enjoyable for me but if we can normalize that from the Gecko from when guys are really young you know sometimes you’ll be really aroused and you’ll be enjoying yourself and you won’t get a hard on and then it it happens and they’re like Oh that was one of those times as opposed to what we’ve done is said every sexual experience must be you getting an erection then ejaculated and then you’re done and then one day they don’t get an erection. They’re like Oh my God. Something’s wrong with me. Something’s up and so it’s going to happen to every single person a and what they know about the reality of bodily functioning makes all the difference because guys come and say especially people who are having sex for example for the first time in a group or sex with a new partner or sex in a swinging or swapping or lifestyle situation they get nervous and they get overexcited and they get over stimulated and the experience that they have been waiting for and planning for and begging for for years comes to a halt because they don’t have an erection but if we could just let them know that hey this will happen. Sometimes it won’t happen another time just because that happened this time doesn’t mean it’s going to happen next time against the the big old porn right so I’m an advocate of porn for a lot of reasons I’m against for some other reasons and for a lot of heroin specifically. That’s the few times they encounter a penis. They don’t get chances to see other penises what they look like how they operate porn does not show erectile letdowns like what movies that not staying hard but that’s cool because I’m still here with you and I’ll just go down you for.

00:20:11 – 00:25:06

Yes thank you don’t worry I got my note. They’re still going to be good at a Nice Bridge Very Nice Ridge too so it’s like we need. We need that to shift now again. They’re making more porn. That’s feminists body positive queer porn that does show letdowns aftercare care and lubrication issues. We need more of that because again. That’s where a lot of guys are seeing sexuality in other penises yeah and so the bottom line is you need to see more penises and I. I’m a big advocate of people seeing real sex or going to a place where people have have real life sex like if you WANNA learn to cook you’re going to go to a cooking studio or watch a show. You’re not going to watch a fake show about could low controversial statement as though because people lose their shit but it’s funny how it’s the one thing that we don’t support you really experiencing dancing or recognizing the necessity of skill development night right. What other thing on the planet do we have? You just talk about in theory assuming you’ll be able to figure it out when it happens all right. If you want to improve your game you actually watch yourself on tape US rock. If you’re bill the check you get in there and you spy on other teams and film them from the trees going to have some New England fans pretty mad at me right now. Some people about is like their Saturday. That’s hot. They want to be uh-huh with consent. Bill Belichick is consent violator interpret spying on New England folks. It’d be mad at me right now but but it’s funny because when you said people I’ll say the patients are just people that call into the radio show go have more sex and there’s silence. It’s like wait. What and I’m like yeah? Go a lot of sex in the next couple of months and it’s like foreign to them because you’re promoting maybe promiscuity or you’re promoting whatever where they might use them. I’m like yeah. There’s nothing wrong with that. If it’s consensual. You’re a healthy adult. You’re making decisions. Go have even people that uncoupling their body. That’s one thing go have sex. Go see your body have desire reflected back be naked more totally and with yourself throat. Go do yourself over and over again because most of us like our masturbation habits were created from a very young age. It was in secrecy. It was as fast as possible. It was as quiet as possible. There was shame in it and we need to undo all those years of learning I mean brandon. You had years learning right many many years of self learning. Did you ever use we vibe uh-huh not at that time he only has the four dollar limited funds. I started. We’ve I was not in the realm of what it was. That is another topic a lot of men and don’t use sex toys and that’s another barrier to break where I asked my friends how many of you have a sex toy very few do and then if they do it’s rather they use them because again what you just said we’re trained to make masturbation quickest quick easy quiet just banging out something to get done not something to saver sit with explore make a day of so that’s part of the work to. I’m guilty of being efficient most of the time seriously if you’re away just as away I’m just like I’m going to get this done as quickly as possible because you won’t do anything else right like you’ll eat slow. I guess we threw down sometimes but not do the same thing when I’m here get it done as fast as you can. Just kidding seems to be the trend now. No that’s another another myth to talk about for example that men need to last longer longer and I I would never ever say oh. I wish that very rarely what I say. I wish that lasts longer but then again with the sexual dysfunction diagnosis is again. Where’s this magic number coming from around length of time so last and should you even give a shit based somewhere came from versus saying I’m someone who Jack Lights very quickly? I’m someone who takes a little bit longer so I’m a fan of people just getting more confident in who they happen to be games like pathology based labels away because clients come in and that’s what the work is like. They’ll say I’m a premature decorate. No you just come very quickly and you and you WanNa enjoy your house. So many other PE- programs actually have a course. We’re developing online but it’s about it’s really about enjoying sex more if you last longer so be it if you WANNA last longer fine but all of these programs are about desensitizing desensitizing yourself when we want you to actually tune in a minute interesting though desensitizing yourself because we’re not talking about sex anymore no we’re talking about performance all these other factors but are chew also equating lasting longer with the idea that both people are Jack leading the exact exact same moment and it’s as though if I were to finish before you or vice versa that the other person isn’t going to continue to invest into that activity until both people meet some sort of mutually agreeable outcome right so it’s simultaneous simultaneous orgasm sounds like the nineties and it’s like science and simultaneous screaming at the same time and then it’s done but it’s not always the imagine rarely. Is that the case of course I’m right but again porn very that’s a very few moments where people a lot of people get to watch sex happen and so they don’t have anything to really challenge that because wins.

00:25:06 – 00:30:00

I’m union buddy sat down. So let’s talk about our sex lives. Yeah it’s rare and if you do it’s not talked about a really honest vulnerable way about your struggles or concerns. No no I completely completely agree with you. I think people ask me about sex because they’re curious about desire resorts right. They’re curious about this resort where your clothing optional and their sex in various places and that’s what people are curious about but they’re not really curious about how you feel. They’re not really curious about your experience. There really hung up on what do people look like and the more you around real life bodies and realized sex the less you’re concerned with exactly how they look yet. You’re more in tune with maybe the way they move or the way they feel are the way they make you feel or the energy and the rest of the experienced as opposed to just some aesthetic piece so I wanted to go back to the personalizing of not having an erection action and how you said female partners will often take it personally. Do you still find the same thing with your same sex clients or is there a better understanding because they both might have a penis. It’s both there’s definitely a better understanding because they have their own experience of that which their partners experiencing and it’s hard to not somehow sometimes personalized that and say if I was enough I might help push them over that edge and they might be able to get hard. Stay hard and so this is just a matter of people understanding that sometimes having an erection is is the Norman sometimes not having an erection is the norm both of those can be really valid and authentic and pleasurable reactions to pleasure because even if you even if you take it away from the penis and you look at just sexual desire. One of the things I’m going to talk about tonight is how men can be the lower desire partner which is surprising is expected to be heterosexual so in some relationships I’ve worked with whether same sex or opposite sex it’s the male who has low sexual desire and that’s very very very confusing for him and I’m also turn remind people that we also have. Like asexuality that your partner again doesn’t have this disorder <unk> might be more sexual. Also I’m trying to use this word that is not catching on. No one seems to give a shit. Okay we got people are like cool and they keep talking but some people are more solo sexual whether they’re not geared towards sex with a partner and your low desires might be that you perform prefer masturbation or you’re what you’re leaving. Appoint addiction might be you prefer slow sex and attack porn on but that’s lost on people but not every assume that everyone should be geared towards partnered mood sex and others and no everything’s a continuum there is a piece recently on auto sexuality as sort of like Solo sexuality and of course when I posted it everyone was like oh all these millennials are just in love with themselves. They’re so self absorbed and that’s not what it’s about you know. I like to read a book by myself. I don’t want to read a book with you talking over my shoulder. I like to cook by myself. I don’t like when people come and ask me gazillion questions when I’m in the kitchen but nobody thinks something’s wrong with me Berman. She’s talking you right now. I’m fighting took by herself because I suck it’s not you but I also personalized in this. All I’m quite introverted and socially anxious. I’m socially awkward. I don’t like a lot of socialization and so although I do enjoy partner Tex there there are components of like being more as social tie into that too were not everyone’s social and that’s going to tie into their choice of partner sex or not partnered sex and so we have to bring that in I’m really happy for technology in that respect because I think that the way we now communicate is more varied so some people are super comfortable walking up to you on the street and say and striking up a conversation and some people would never do that but they’d be able to craft a message or they’d be able to use emojis to express themselves so I know everyone is Pooh poohing on technological advances. It’s a very helpful tool for some people I mean I work a lot. I worked fourteen hour days sometimes days off in weeks. That’s the way I’m going to find date and sex partners out in the world otherwise but we’re here for you in Toronto for the sex partners on the topic of Solar Sexuality Real quick is is there a toy that you’ve used that you think is great the factor in general though that you brought up the Tanga Egg. I’m a big fan of the Tango Egg. I feel like I’m promoting it right now. But here we go. I am but not meaning to <hes> its disposable. Its discreet. It’s simple comes with Lou Bennett. It has multi uses and so I like products like that because again I work a lot. I’m lazy. I don’t want something that the clean air dry put out. You know so things that are simple easily cleaned one news. We’ve pivot works on so many different sensitivities is a vibrating penis ring. I’m sure I’ve talked about it. Before it sits at the base of the penis. It’s got some great angles to be used in multiple positions and then you guys had brought up the vector. The vector is a relatively new toy on the market and it is a vibrating prostate toy lots of are indeed going into it might my clients are liking it thus far. I haven’t used it because I don’t have a prostate accessible through my but I do have a prostate accessible through my vaginal canal but let’s not talk about my vaginal canal.

00:30:01 – 00:35:16

Let’s go back to porn because you talked about being a fan of porn for some reasons and not a fan for other reasons and I wanNA talk a little bit about porn addiction because I know you’ve done some writing on that and there there is some division within the psychological and expert community on on the terminology porn addiction is a profitable industry but it is not a diagnosis and I’ve seen you write about how porn is a form of scapegoating and an excuse oftentimes for your own behavior in porn addiction itself just for people who don’t know has been and repeatedly rejected by the the American Psychological Association the American Medical Association. It’s not in the D._S._M.. <hes> in terms of anyone that considers evidence based data drew look right over sensationalism so oh so why is porn addiction such a draw. Why do people want to say my problem is porn addiction? My husband’s problem and it’s usually men is porn. Addiction are marital problems all come down to their porn addiction so the research was showing knowing that where people were saying originally that people that are using a high quantity of porn that it was creating marital conflict. The research shows the opposite when they’re not in relationships that they’re happy about and the sex isn’t the way they want it. They then seek out porn so the issue is the relationship not that porn is the problem creating problems in their relationship. It’s the reverse and so for those that are struggling with it. The work is really about looking at the state of your relationship your partner choice. Are you guys sexually compatible and that’s why toby we’ll have sex as soon as possible. Please don’t think that because you like your partner you have a lot in common or they’re hot that sexual chemistry is going to be there. It’s not that something to explore right exists on its own so the framing and commitment make sure that’s there especially if you’re GonNa do monogamy my God if you’re going to get your sexuality Schwalier part in such a way to one person but make sure it’s there otherwise you might be turning to pornography as a way to still manager monogamous relationship and if you’re hyper sexual then of course we’ll be doing it a lot and that can also be okay in fact porn can be a great tool. If I want sex a lot more than brandon. Then porn might be something that I use on the side. If we’re in a monogamous relationship you also talk about toxic monogamy and I think this is really important because people that’s okay like it. I’m just playing footsie’s people people again sometimes when we use the word toxic think that all monogamy is toxic but that’s not what you’re saying how to keep correcting that because I got a bad rap for a while where people were thinking I hated marriage monogamy and I was like let me clarify no. I think it’s the way some people are running their marriages urges and Monogamy Aka toxic monogamy that is a problem these ideas that gosh there’s so many good examples one the idea of ownership that your sexuality is mine and that’s where the issues of porn commission that you shouldn’t be able to recognize other things as attractive in the World World Dear God in heaven you can be married in monogamous and still allow your partner to engage with their eyeballs and be oriented towards attractive things in the world in a really respectful loving way so it’s things like that it usually the ownership these different forms of ownership that actually starts to fall all into the category of emotional abuse people think they have a right to be looking at search history and then shame you for. You’re looking at versus saying well. Tell me about your sexuality or I snapped and I shouldn’t have but what I found helped me understand more about you and trying to lovingly engage in and partner with usually used against people so yeah so that’s kind of the writing I’m doing for my next book is looking at some elements of monogamy that quite toxic and in rebel love I talk about some elements of the way people are running their marriage relationships that are quite problematic because again marriage. It’s awesome. It’s awesome for some people and I mean you define what your marriage is the issue of control so people will say to me. Is it okay to watch porn while I’m in a relationship and I mean I don’t really get to make that call but if you are or is it okay. The people say well. There’s something wrong with my partner because all he does is look at pictures of girls in Bikinis. That’s his entire instagram feed. He’s liking all these pictures a yeah and I saw that as one of your posts as well that when you try and control what they like and what they look at. Do you think that it deepens your love laugh but see that’s the that’s the question. Do you think that that’s an act of love and care. Do you think that that brings your partner towards you. Do you think that they feel loved and cared for. Do you think that that’s a healthy standard to set up and you have to that person. WHO’s upset about that has to do the work of looking at where did they get the the idea that that was okay for me to do that is something I wanted to stay in my relationship with the impact of that yeah and why am I so upset that he’s looking at these beautiful pictures what what is it about my life that makes me feel like either can’t compare to those pictures or that? I want to be like those pictures or whatever it may be but there was a research last year around liking photos and how that amounted to cheating and we had to kind of dismantle all of that because you can’t I I wouldn’t even think to think Oh what has brandon double tap today what an either and I hate that it’s going to give you the capacity to look at whoever you’re following what they’re liking and what comments there posing like. Please remove that because first off that’s like a loaded gun but I agree with you. I’ve never thought to say let me see what someone I’m dating liking following I don’t I don’t need that but that’s also because I trust I don’t people I don’t trust and if I trust you I go without until I’m shown in a healthy way that I can’t and then I dressed that because then we can land in the topic of someone cheating on you if you have a boundary against that that’s not a moment to leave them.

00:35:16 – 00:40:39

It’s moment to say what was that about what’s going on. How can we learn more? Can we strengthen something. We need to make some kind of change right. There’s a hierarchy of relationship transgressions and of course cheating is at the very top right. I can treat you terribly. I can talk to you in ways that are demeaning but not everybody is going to expect you to leave me over that but if I were to cheat on you especially if I was a woman cheating momentum course your your pride your honor. This is where we again. We need to eradicate gender among were but I’m down to don’t worry I’m still here okay so took close rebel of break the rules destroy toxic habits and have the best sex of your life. What should we be doing besides breaking down the gender roles? Is there anything specific somebody can do tonight in changing the way they think or changing the way they behave or approaching something with you know a a new angle better sex. This is a really broad answer and it’s GonNa frustrate some people I want people to really work on tapping into what’s authentically and honestly arousing and hot to them being done to them doing to others and tried to lead with that even if it’s something you know your partner does want to hear or do I want people do the whole thank you. Thank you for being more known. Thank you for caring enough about us to tell me that I’ve no interest not into that but thank you for sharing a part of yourself with me and so I want that peace somehow how more intimacy building sharing the parts of yourself that make you anxious looking sexuality and fantasy and poor and say other things in there that are real for me that I want to try to engage talk about it brings. Her partner told your friends about it. I really appreciate that piece around. If somebody tells you as something that makes you uncomfortable if your partner comes to you with with something that makes you feel insecure or jealous or fearful or triggered in some way I think to respond with thank you for sharing that not only does it communicate to them the appreciation but I think it also creates a sense of calm in your own body where you’re saying yeah I appreciate this. I may not be okay with it right now. I may not have it. I may have some feelings about it but I appreciate that you were able to to tell me that because there’s so much shame and the way through shame is to share what would it is. That’s that’s that’s keeping that alive and again so it’s own brings that to you I handle it very comfortably and vulnerably and say thank you and then you have your own feelings about it down the road but don’t swoop in thrown feelings all of these things that you’re making reference to Jesse. You’ve talked about them before so how many times as well as having conversations like understanding your sexuality having a stronger relationship with your partner having a better sex life starts with words starts with thinking and understanding and and it’s only if you’re willing to do that and I think some of the challenges at least from some of the conversations that I’ve had with my friends were willing to talk about it is how do I even begin that conversation right like how do i. How do I go home tonight and say to my partner who had never I’ve had this conversation with before I wanNA look at different types of porn to see what I really like when there’s all these other layers of let’s just say chap rather challenges? Will I tell them this. If you don’t have a relationship that has has a lot of frequency of that intimacy in-depth start smaller don’t do a drive by where you just swoop in and drop these things that you’re going to like what that was so close because for some people that is a very heavy disclosure and so- plan that work towards <hes> right like start to build the foundation build an intimate relationship and then do that but again some of the fear of disclosure is around being slut shamed homophobia when my partner think I’m gay if I’m Hetero identifying Watson ask play <hes> what we call it a porn addict if I share my interest in pornography so I want partners to not bring those pieces end so we can just let our other share their honest parts with us. There’s there’s some some big issues like cultural issues to break down but I think that you you give the best advice which is to begin by speaking listening and saying thank you and really being grateful that you’re in a relationship where someone can open up even if it’s not always a comfortable one so thank you so much for being here much appreciated so make sure you check out rebel love break the rules destroy toxic cabinets and have the best sex of your life and your website is Dr Kordestan Dot Com awesome. Thanks again before we sign off a big. Thank you to desire resorts in cruises for their ongoing support. Check them out at desire experience chance brandon. Did you learn a bunch. Today are learned so much. What are you going to do differently because I think it’s so helpful to just you know take in the information and say oh? That’s really interesting to me your that really resonates with me but I think that if if you want to reap the benefits there needs to be some cognitive shift or behavioral change I I agree. I thought the body neutrality comment was really interesting. It’s I’m trying to eat healthier eating how I want to eat it. I’m trying to stay healthy by going to the gym and this is how my body is because I do think that I’m guilty of seeing photos and images on my social feeds of people that I will never look like and if I did try to look that way it would be detrimental detrimental in my opinion to my life so accepting that neutrality of where I’m at now and trying to be happy was something that I really thought was a very different in healthy approach which it was great all right so wherever you’re at hopefully there’s something that you can embrace from Dr Chris Donahue’s advice some sort of cognitive shift or behavioral change.

00:40:39 – 00:40:44

I know you’ve got this. Wherever you’re at have a wonderful week? We’ll be back next Friday.